CAT assessment question

[Franny1]

Can someone help? My DS is at a private junior school (year 4) and they do the winter assessments in a way that they say is standard practise and I find odd and unhelpful. They say they sit it for “their current year 4 group” and that it may be “more challenging than usual” ie it includes year 4 work they haven’t covered yet.

This means my DS has come out with a maths score of 109 even though he’s in the top set, which speaking to people with kids higher in the school is to be expected (eg a friend says her son got 102 in winter and 129 in summer!). I guess I have a few questions:

1. is this standard practise?

2. if it is standard practise what kind of figures are you seeing in winter? (By contrast my DS got 120 in English but I guess maybe it’s easier to guess at harder comprehension than maths topics they just haven’t covered.)

3. what should I be expecting my DS to be getting now if I’m hoping he’s generally above 120 with CAT scores in terms of looking at secondary schools? (His current school and a secondary so they are very much not a prep and not very helpful when it comes to giving you clear info regarding preparing them for elsewhere.)

thanks!

You should also try and find out the board - is it GL or Incas etc and do they stick to the same board beginning and end of year…

The GL progress tests are twice a year so this may well be what you have……

CAT stands for cognitive ability test. It measures potential in effect, not attainment which is what SATs test. Therefore there is little correlation between what a child has learned in maths and how they perform in a CAT test. Progress is measured by taking 2 of the same type of tests and seeing what the score differences are. Therefore there is is no single test for progress as such.

I’m not sure what tests my dc school uses, but in the first few weeks of autumn term they are tested on the previous year’s expectations, and then at the end of the year (summer term) they are tested again for their current year’s expectations, so only tested on what they have been taught. Their scores do vary a bit each time, but are broadly in the same range (meeting expectations/ exceeding expectations, etc.)

Our CATs were done in the Autumn term too. Both my sons passed their 11+ with 130 plus scores and both had a range of CAT scores in years 3,4 and 5. I think the lowest was around 104 and the highest 135.

I think you just need to ask the school exactly which

Cheeky as anything! 😂

Phone the school OP as no one can tell you exactly what you want to know.

Thanks so much @theeyeofdoe , I’ve DMed you.

Really don’t think it’s cheeky to ask people to address my actual question rather than telling me to avoid hothousing my child. I was pretty clear in my original post that I was just looking for people who’d had a similar experience.

I have of course asked the school for clarification. They are being a bit slow and vague, hence my asking here.

I don't over think these things unless it's directly impacting my child. Does it affect your child in anyway as to what these scores are?

You are mixing up CAT and PTE/ PTM.

CAT doesn't really change.

A PTM of 109 doesn't really correlate with a CAT score of 120 plus. Do you know his CAT score is actually over 120?

<Sticks head above parapet> Have you tried asking other parents from your DC's year group, or the one above? Or is this a new testing process for this academic year?

Thanks @MarchingFrogs yes I asked friends with older kids who had had the same experience in previous years (eg getting 129 in maths in summer term having got 102 in winter) and said they’d been told it was normal - but still didn’t entirely understand the system, what the numerical expectations for the winter term were (I mean, how low is ok?) or whether they were CATs or something else, either in winter or summer.

As I say, I’ve asked the school but they say they with all the end of term stuff going on they can’t get back to me with a comprehensive answer until next term, which is frustrating.

at my granddaughters private they have been doing, what seems to me like non stop testing for all of year five and first half of six. All sorts of tests. And like any test, the necessary skills associated with testing (looking at the clock, pacing yourself, checking your position on paper forms, reviewing if you have time, moving on if stuck etc.) improve with practice.
subsequently even CAT scores (which in theory shouldn’t improve) improve. Test anxiety generally goes down so 11+ and ISEB’s are not as stressful.
Although it’s made for a lot of “schools no fun” comments.

https://www.gl-education.com/assessments/products/progress-test-in-maths/

It tends to be this one they use. You will see there are two elements to it. It is more important you understand which parts of maths your son can improve on. Generally if the whole cohort does badly in one aspect, it will inform teaching.

Personally I would not expect a child to improve by more than 10 points. However, they can of course, especially if there were particular weak areas you focus on.

Our state primary school uses paper based tests which are different but also stretching. And definitely also include elements that have not been taught yet.

Big cliche for Year 4 is timetables need to be completely secure in every way, division, and mental deduction above the usual ones. Also worth memorising 13x13, 14x14 etc.

So don’t ask if 109 is too low, ask which areas he struggled in, in particular, if there are any.