Discussion - School is NOT beneficial to young children at all!

[shappyred]

The UK education system is antiquated and damaging to children. Formal learning would ideally begin from age 7-8, until then, children need free-play, social time and lots of outdoor time.

What are the best alternatives to this? Home Ed? Forest school? Also, it's very clear that parent/child attachment becomes strained and kids become peer attached at school, this is wrong on all levels!

What type of provision could work better? Private schooling it seems isn't much better.

A play based provision from 5-8 year olds?

I'm very interested in this subject..

I like our system in Ireland. Children can start school between 4 and 6 so you can send them in the September when you think they are ready. Then it's two years in infants which I think is similar to reception. They're entitled to two years of preschool before starting school as well. My kids could already read and write though before starting school after attending Montessori.

I think some people have odd ideas about education abroad. They don't stay at home until 6... they go to preschool settings which are similar to Reception class...

I do think it would be better if there could be a system where they judge when children are individually ready to move from play based to more formal education. I think trying to make the decision when they are three is too young. However class planning would be impossible and there is no capacity for flex in the English system.

Yes I am wondering, it sounds very much like control to me

You're describing the approach that the Scandinavian countries have adopted and something I have long thought is a positive approach to learning. However, I have an August born child who, to be honest, wasn’t really ready for “learning” at school at age 4 - mostly because he was only just 4, whereas many of his “friends” at school were quite a bit older.

As they get older I do think this gap reduces - but certainly at younger ages it’s clearly visible.

My son is at secondary school now and doing “ok”. But essentially, I am a fan of the system of starting “formal” school a bit later.

This happens across lots of authorities in Scotland and it’s great when resourced correctly and with high quality training and enough support staff. However the formal academic exam system hasn’t caught up so issues there. It doesn’t mean no academic teaching but there’s a strain as behaviour in 5-8 year olds is off the charts with little ones coming to school in nappies with no SEN.

Our school is entirely play based for P1 and this continues into P2 as well. Both of my kids have had great transitions to school and have thrived both socially and educationally. It’s a standard Scottish primary school in a very mixed catchment, fairly bog standard. I wouldn’t change a thing other than making sure the school has the money for the resources it needs, which it absolutely doesn’t.

I have friends in one of the countries cited as being "better" that they start formal education later at 7 yet it turns out (a) most dc go to structured preschool from 2 and learn to read etc from 4/5 just like in the U.K. and (b) parents are teaching them at home as well because they think their kids are so behind. Oh and (c) school finishes a year later than England and 1.5 years later than the Scottish system approx (Scotland seems to vary a bit). They also complain that they have to pay for nursery because there's not sufficient state places

"The English system starting at 4 is too young." does read as if it is being presented as a fact, yes.

In a discussion thread you can take it that people are sharing opinions HTH

What a pile of shite

There is no UK education system. Education is devolved. England does not = UK.

In Wales, children learn through play until the end of Year 2 and have done since about 2008.

Would your childhood self agree?

I simply didn't turn traitor with age.

It's funny how other people's rights so often suddenly don't matter if we need to exploit them for our own benefit.

No one, regardless of age, should be forced to be somewhere they hate.

This was my experience as well. My mum ended up booking annual leave, taking us out of school for a few weeks, and teaching us to read.

Depends on the child. My dd is summer born and started reception this year. She loves it and is thriving. She was definitely ready and has come on leaps and bounds with her reading, made loads of friends and is loving joining in with all the activities. Alongside short lessons they do plenty of free play, outdoor learning and socialising. She was bored at nursery when it was all free play.

Also peer attached simply means the children have friends and sometimes have different views from their parents.

A strong view but I don't relate to that

I loved school and loved to learn, still do. To say 75% of education is of no use is utter nonsense and horribly insulting to the thousands of people who work their arses off in the classroom

Can you link to a peer reviewed study that shows that most children are unable to cope with 5 days a week school, and that their attachment to parents suffers?

As for the idea they become 'peer attached' 🤣 nope. My children definitely care far more about me than a few school friends!!

Hard disagree. My child’s school has a great balance and they can’t be the only one’s. Reception year is a mix of forest school and play. Year one is a bit more classroom learning but still lots of play based and regular forest school. Year 2 leans more towards classroom learning but the transition has been so gradual and the children are thriving. DS adores going to school and he was beyond ready for it in the last few months of nursery. He was getting bored and restless at nursery and clearly needed to start learning and broadening his horizons. No school system is a success for every child. There is always going children who don’t thrive and are more suited to homeschool. But overall I think we have a good system in the UK. The curriculum could do with an overhaul though

I live in Wales, my children learnt through play during the early years, and loved it. I was very very glad they attended school though.

You’ve chosen the wrong school. My DT’s loved school - started at 4 years and 2 months - had been in full time nursery from six months. There is much more than reading, writing and math. What about foreign languages, science, history, geography, team sports, art, technology and friendship

I sort of agreed with you when my kids were babies but now I have one in Reception and one in year 2, and actually I think they’ve both benefitted hugely from starting school when they did. School is very play based/ interactive, they’ve got a wildlife garden, they’ve got loads of playgrounds for outdoor time.

If they didn’t start school they’d be in some kind of childcare / kindergarten or whatever, (because I have to work but also because they need to interact with peers and have more stimulation than being at home with a parent can provide…) and realistically it would be the same as school is, because school provides an age appropriate education, but called a different name.

I do recognise some children aren’t developmentally ready but I think they’re the exception and maybe more flexibility in the school system might be good for those children, but I don’t think the whole system is flawed for the majority of children.

Disagree!
it is very different

Quite.

I was also less pro-school until mine actually went. I used to admire the scandi systems of starting formal learning at 7, but my kid was desperate to write a learn at 4. She’s now in year three and thriving.

I make sure they get tons of outside play, no screens, after school and at weekends.

I don’t agree with homework in primary school, but would concede to 1 x home project each term. Something fairly lightweight and creative, to introduce the notion of home learning, without the pressure of being marked.

We live in a social society, and broadly speaking I don’t think homeschool is the best solution for most kids.