Help needed please!! In-year admission appeal

[ThisAzureFinch]

Hi all,
Please could I have some advice re making an in-year admission appeal.

Reason for the move is around friendship issues and impacts of these on my two children. Essentially, one of my children has close friends but they are very fraught relationships – one other child has a diagnosis that results in very significant anger issues such that (with no blame to the other child, parents or school), my child feels as though she is walking on egg shells to try and prevent anger outbursts and is in fear of physical aggression too (having previously experienced this from this other child). There are lots of tears and struggles with sleep etc.

My other child doesn’t have the same fraught relationships but has struggled to develop close friendships by year 4 at school (she has had something like two invites to playdates at someone else’s house in the entire time she has been at school). She is pretty sociable, having made good friends at extra curricular clubs but school friends don’t seem to be the right fit. She finds this very upsetting that she doesn’t have invites which has led to big emotional outbursts and lots of tears again.

So, my vague(!) understanding is that the focus of an appeal is around why we want them to go to the new school as opposed to why it is in their best interests to leave their existing school (although seems to me there may be some link between these!).Anyway, thinking of going with the sorts of arguments below. If anyone could please tell me if they are not relevant/will be easy to dismiss, please let me know:

• As both of my children are deaf, important to give them the best opportunities for friendships for mental health purposes (could cite BMJ study re increased suicide risk in the deaf community but I don’t know if that’s appropriate?)
• Related point is that if they were unplaced, they would be prioritised for a place via the Fair Access Protocol due to their disability i.e. Government policy recognises the vulnerability of children with disabilities in an educational context
• The proposed school offers a chance to make friends in our local area (to be fair our existing school is closer but I was using this as a comparison with other schools that might have spaces) – there are also lots of big school community building events which will again help develop friendships
• The proposed school is fairly unique locally in offering a great and varied selection of extra curricular clubs in the school – i.e. as compared to other schools with spaces (including the existing school) there are far more opportunities for developing friendships in this way
• The proposed school also has really good offerings for music and art (which the older and younger find a really good outlet) and so this would be a good confidence/mental health boost
• The proposed school has a very distinct community feel with lots of responsibility offered to the children eg litter picking, taking responsibility for younger children - all of which would help with settling in, friendship building and confidence
• [not sure whether to mention SEN provision at the proposed school which I have heard on the grapevine is good but I don’t really have any substantive evidence of this!]
• [not sure whether to mention there are a couple of kids in their year they would know from extra curricular clubs i.e. there would be a couple of friendly faces on arrival but I don’t know if this just looks like they are moving solely to be with friends – which isn’t the case as they aren’t especially close to the children at the proposed school]

Having done a bit of googling, I understand that I can also question the admissions authority/school around why they feel that going about their PAN would cause any problems with the efficient provision of education (or whatever the terminology is!). Any tips around this would also be much appreciated please! Thanks so much in advance if you’ve made it this far!!

I am not an expert like some others (although I do have some experience) but friendship issues are not usually grounds for appeal.
I assume you are on waiting list but the school is full?
Some of the things you mention such as music provision etc MAY help but it might be that you need to demonstrate your child already being involved in music to a high level already

I agree with @Hoppinggreen

You have to demonstrate that the detriment to your children not getting a place in the school, is greater than the detriment to the school of taking children over number.

If your children have a specific interest or talent, such as music or a sport or art and the school they are at doesn’t offer those, you could use that, but it could be argued that all schools will offer music and art, unless they perform to a high level.

The friendship issues, the community feel, knowing other children and extra curricular offers are not grounds for appeal. All schools provide these to a greater or lesser degree.

Do either or both have an EHCP? If so, you are in a different position and can go through the official SEND channels to apply to change the placement.

Otherwise the waiting list is the option.

Thanks very much for your reply - it's really helpful to have someone else's perspective. I find the whole thing confusing to be honest since, as a matter of common sense, if there was something like significant bullying in your existing school, I would expect that to be a strong case to enable you to move but from what I have read, it seems as though the case you need to make is around the basis for your preference for the proposed school. Probably wishful thinking, but I was hoping to make a case really around striving to optimise their mental health in view of their disability and then arguing why I think the proposed school would be likely to serve that purpose.

I am hopeful also (clearly an optimist here!) that the school may be less resistant to going above PAN on the basis that they are not already above PAN in those year groups and unusually for them have been a little undersubscribed in younger year groups so may be open on the basis of additional pupils bringing more funding (but I may be misunderstanding the system there).

Thanks again :)

Sorry new to Mumsnet so I have possibly replied to the wrong post and also forgot to answer the first question - we were told that there were spaces but then it transpired that they were full so we are now in the slightly unfortunate situation of our children getting their hopes up about a move when it's now unlikely.

I suppose my question is at what stage do friendship issues become a factor that would weigh materially in the balance - we have had bedwetting as a direct consequence of the stresses at school with friends - so it is something that has been significant (this was my older child). I am unsure also as to what weight is given to the fact that they are both deaf - they do not have (and I understand would be unlikely to get) an ECHP, but I was hoping that the fact of their disability would count for something bearing in mind that they would be automatically classed as 'vulnerable' for this reason under the Fair Access Protocol.

Sounds like I am facing an uphill struggle :(

"as a matter of common sense, if there was something like significant bullying in your existing school, I would expect that to be a strong case to enable you to move"

This may be a strong case for you wanting to move, but it is unlikely to be a strong case for forcing another school to go over its planned admission number to admit you.

Aren't there any other schools in your area with places?

Your existing school will have a bullying policy. Are they following it?

Sorry, to be clear - I would not be seeking to demonstrate bullying in our case - whilst there have been significant difficulties for my children socially, I would not claim that there has been bullying against them. What I meant was I find it confusing that difficulties at the existing school don't weigh in the balance since they will typically in reality form the basis for many requests.

All of our immediately local schools are full. Others in the wider area may be available but in my view these do not have the same offering as the chosen school for a number of reasons (which from the sounds of what you are all saying perhaps aren't very credible!)

Anyway, I think probably that if no additional weight will be given to social issues bearing in mind their disability, I probably stand very little chance. Likely I will appeal and just hope that the school/admissions authority isn't able to demonstrate material concerns caused by going over the PAN on the basis that they have done this in previous years apparently without a drop in attainment or safety issues.

Thanks again

If your dc have physical issues related to stress which the new school can alleviate you need hcp to state that in their opinion the move is necessary. If they are deaf do they have EHCPs? Friendship issues may occur wherever they attend.

Thanks for your reply and the advice. I suspect that the GP and their Teacher of the Deaf would be happy to support the move on this basis. They don't have an ECHP and Iikely would not presently qualify.

Thanks again - I'll get on the GP and ToD now!

Any supporting evidence from professionals would need to state that the school you want is the only/best option I think and they may be unwilling to do that

Thanks for all of the comments (even if I am now feeling somewhat lacking in hope!).

Having given it some thought, even if a pointless attempt, I will strive to hammer home to the panel the mental health burden that deaf people face and the importance in that context of striving to optimise my children's emotional and social development in the education setting. I am sure that from what everyone says here this won't count for anything in a school admissions context. However, I feel as though it is something that it is important for my children’s sake (and indeed as a matter of principle) to get across.

Just to be clear (so you don’t all think I am stupid!) I am aware that that a new school will not automatically ‘fix’ friendship issues. However, I do feel it is of significant importance to remove my child from a school friendship in which he has been subject to daily aggression for years (I would not describe it as bullying in view of the other child’s issues, but the consequence for my child has been the same as it would be for what I would describe as bullying). They are both in juniors so we have given it a good deal of time for the aggression issues with my child’s friend to settle, and for my younger child to try to develop some closer friendships.

We have carefully selected the proposed school not on OFSTED reports or on a whim but having been very anxious around the fact that a new school will present its own friendship issues (certainly in the beginning), and we have therefore tried very hard to choose a school that has the ethos and community offering to optimise the chance of friendships.
Anyway, off to write my appeal/pester the GP/ToD for some support.
Thanks again all : )

I completely agree that it would be in your childrens best interests to move to the school BUT unfortunately its not as simple when it comes to appeals.
But you have nothing to lose so I wish you the best of luck x

Unfortunately with in year transfers it's often a case of waiting, the good news is people seem to move a lot, we got a place just 3 weeks after our appeal failed because a kid didn't return from holidays so was unenrolled.

I suspect they would take a view that any primary school is equipped to support the social issues if deaf children. Are there any resources specific to that school?

Thanks - yes I imagine that they are all legally required to make suitable provision. That said, our experience (in a pre-school setting at least as they attended different pre-schools) is that whilst two settings might both be suitably equipped such as to comply with their legal obligations, the reality that the child experiences from the operation of those policies can be very different. The specific SEN and MH policies of our proposed school was definitely a factor in our consideration. I suppose that my best bet might be to compare and contrast SEN/MH policies at schools which do have places. Another job for me!

A quick couple of additional questions please if anybody knows the answer please:

• Since the panel operates in a judicial role, I just wondered if anyone knows whether statutory declarations are admissible in evidence. It would probably just be from us as their parents to attest to their social and emotional difficulties (which I appreciate from what people say is unlikely to hold much weight anyway) but I would just like the veracity of their struggles to not be in doubt.
• Does anyone know whether when the panel gives the outcome of the first stage (contrary to the efficient education to admit more pupils), is the panel required to state a level of prejudice to the school e.g. they have already admitted 3 children above PAN, there would be 'significant' prejudice to the school; or this would be the first child admitted above PAN, there would be a 'modest degree' of prejudice?

I am just wondering as presumably the level of prejudice at the first stage impacts upon how the prejudice to my child weighs in the balance at the second stage

• As I will be making separate appeals across two year groups, will there be any scope for linking these (so that I am not literally repeating myself on some points) or will they be kept entirely separate?
• Related to the above, is the outcome of one appeal for one of my children at all relevant to the outcome of the other (both in relation to the support they provide for each other as the only deaf children in the school and also in terms of whether they would expect me to do two separate school runs if one appeal succeeded and the other failed – I’m guessing they don’t care?!)

Thanks again! 😊

They possibly aren't that quick I now realise ;)

I was actually going to ask you what you would do if you won one but not the other (perfectly possible as I think you will have different panels for each, space issues etc may be more or less important for different year groups etc)

And I am not one of the appeals experts but I don’t think your account of your child would have more weight if you made it as a statutory declaration

• Related point is that if they were unplaced, they would be prioritised for a place via the Fair Access Protocol due to their disability i.e. Government policy recognises the vulnerability of children with disabilities in an educational context

I don’t think this helps you because your children are placed. The FAP is to ensure that a child isn’t out of education for too long, and it means the local school deemed to be best placed to go over PAN must take them, rather than giving the parents choice about that school.

Thanks - we had been pondering this ourselves. I would be tempted in that scenario to accept the place for the appeal that had been allowed on the basis that presumably having a sibling in the school would move the other child up the waiting list based on the admissions criteria. It would though be a very tough call though honestly as they are both so unhappy that I do not know how they would cope being left in the existing school. Argh!

Out of curiosity, if the school/admissions authority was willing to link the appeals on the basis that they would expect to make the same arguments for each, is there procedural/legal scope to combine the appeals? I am guessing not :(

Ah ok, thanks - I just know that in the context of some other appeals processes, more weight would be given to evidence in this form but I suspect that my evidence of their social and emotional difficulties is likely to count for very little either way.

Thanks very much - I had been reading around this a little (including the Hansard commentary!) to see if I could find any support for my arguments that social/emotional concerns should carry more weight in the case of an SEN child.

I realise that since my children are placed the FAP would not apply and that even if the FAP did apply, parental preference would only be taken into account rather than adhered to. The argument that I was trying to string out was that, since SEN kids without an ECHP are recognised as vulnerable/at a disadvantage per the FAP, more weight should be given to my concerns as to their emotional and social wellbeing (which would also, I understand, be a relevant factor in a ECHP assessment) - and also that my well-researched (!) preference based on which school would meet their particular needs should also carry some material weight in the decision making process.

All probably highly wishful thinking!

I am going to tag @prh47bridge who is an expert and gives time generously to these threads.

AFAIK there isn't a way to combine two appeals. One of your children is in year 4, what year is the other?

In respect of the waiting lists for in year, how many are currently ahead of you, do you know?

You said that anecdotally the SEN provision is better in the target school - can I ask what you mean by 'better'? Because if for example they ran a specific club or programme for hearing difficulties, that could help?

Thanks so much - I really do appreciate all of the help on this. My other child is in Year 3. I am pretty sure that neither of the years are over their PAN so I expect that the arguments will be similar for both, but I guess there may be particular factors relevant to the different years (maybe in terms of existing children with particular needs in each class - I assume that would probably be a relevant consideration in terms of prejudice to the existing pupils).

I actually don't know how many are on the waiting list for each year - we had been told that there were spaces in each class originally but there was some confusion as between the school and the admissions authority (which is the Council in this case). We pretty much resolved to just try an appeal regardless of the waiting list length since they are both so unhappy.

Thanks again