To despair at attitude

[Teaching90]

Just realised that parental attitude towards teachers has taken a significant nosedive in the last twenty years. I was in the company of whom I would call good parents yesterday, and on at least three occasions, private lives of teachers were discussed, sickness etc, personal opinions shared on how ‘good’ the teaching is and how their darling offspring either really liked them or disliked them as if it’s a popularity contest to be won.
All conversations were quickly shut down as there were a couple of teachers present and friends are too polite to keep it going but I can only imagine what is said where we aren’t there. And we wonder why the education system is screwed?!

I agree with you. I recently had to listen to a parent who I though was lovely, rudely complain that ‘the school wants £800 for a trip’ as if they’d sent bailiffs round to his house for it on Christmas Eve. The trip was an optional, wonderful opportunity for his child, talking place in school holiday so no obligation, just an offer. Even that means teachers are evil.

@SometimesCalmPerson actually I don't think schools should organise trips that cost £800.
It's actually a very cruel offer to many children because their parents will have absolutely no way of affording it.

I agree with you that it’s inappropriate but also think this is the case for many professions. I see it all the time on local social media pages etc and it isn’t just about teachers. There seems to be a significant (and growing) body of people with a complete lack of respect for others and very little self awareness.

Most definitely not just related to teaching - I understand that blind respect does not need to be offered but gossiping and belittling behaviour does not help.

Why? I remember not being able to afford to attend my school’s ski trip when 12. It was a life lesson and one of many that inspired me to work hard, go to university and earn a good living!

I think this nails it. I’ve heard several people say that “respect needs to be earned”. I think that treating people and things with respect is the baseline that everyone should start from. It must be hugely demoralising for teachers. Sadly the unreasonable ones are often those who get heard because they shout the loudest.

@Teaching90 define a "good living"? Both my parents worked full time. They had a mortgage. My dad had a car. We weren't "poor". We were just a normal regular family. But £800 (or 80s equivalent) for a school trip was something that they really couldn't have afforded.
A trip described as a "wonderful opportunity" that many families won't be able to afford is cruel in my view.

Salaries are relevant and I get your point but schools trips should and are offered. If a child’s family cannot afford it, then unfortunately that will have to be a conversation about money, finance and budgeting. I am not scarred by the experience. My parents also had good jobs in the 80s and worked hard but they explained in a sensible fashion why they couldn’t afford. It was never the school’s fault.

@Teaching90 I just don't think schools should offer these types of trips in the first place (so it is "their fault").
However your post is about the attitude towards teachers. I do agree with you that it has got quite bad with lack of respect from both students and parents.
But of all the issues going in education schools offering £800 "wonderful opportunities" is just ridiculous and laughable.
They are not a priority.

I sometimes feel that teachers take offence when no criticism is intended - for example the example of the £800 school trip. Nobody thinks the teachers who have to go on that trip chose it or necessarily wanted to go - that is a decision by the school's SLT. We all know that.

As for discussing how effective individual teachers are, of course we do that. Parents have always done that because some teachers are excellent and some are really poor. The same applies to hairdressers, surgeons, plumbers and policemen. Having no opinion about your child's teacher would be really odd.

Having said all that, everyone I know thinks teachers have to put up with shitty behaviour now, and that excluding children should be easier and quicker. Not a popular opinion on Mumsnet but I think children should earn their place in a standard school by reasonable behaviour, and anyone who won't or can't belongs elsewhere.

Don't tar all parents, or kids, with the same brush! At DDs primary there were excellent teacher/pupil/parent relations and this is important to us so we chose a secondary school with the same ethos.
Some parents have a lack of respect for teachers which is then passed down to their kids. Some of us support teachers and schools.

Nobody thinks the teachers who have to go on that trip chose it or necessarily wanted to go - that is a decision by the school's SLT. We all know that.

I know this is not the main point of the thread but I am not sure that is true. I used to run a trip abroad for year 7s (for a good number at our school, their first time out of the UK); we kept costs as low as possible. It was hard hard work for all the staff who went. But I still heard parents talking about staff being on "a jolly" while looking after their DC in another country. One such parent was a colleague

And I suppose no one ever talks about parents in the same way in the staff room?

It's not in the last 20 years. It started in the 1980s when they started striking every 5 minutes. They've not enjoyed respect since then.

I also wonder what teachers say about parents in the privacy of the staffroom!

Had that at my son's school - a trip that costs £900 and the parents in my son's year group moaned about it being too expensive. So it didn't happen. It was the only year group where it didn't happen. The school is a leafy comp - people have a LOT of money in this area precisely because we have decent state schools so they aren't spending money on private school fees.

Said parents seemed to have enough money to buy very expensive cars though.

It's all down to priorities.

People moan about everything. Teacher moan about parents - parents moan about teachers. And some teachers are parents too!

The trip thing is an odd example. People are allowed opinions about whether a trip is good value for money/inclusive. Even in leafy areas. So is having an opinion on the quality of teaching. The music teaching at my dd's school is so shit that a local music teacher was offering catch up lessons to the gcse students for free as she felt sorry for them after 2 bizarre teachers came and went in quick succession. The head admitted it was all very unsatisfactory. I am not sure it is disrespectful for parents to think the same. I am sure there are examples that support your point better.

Just because in the current economy it will remain out of reach for many people for years and years to come, irrespective of the inspiration they might get from not being able to join their wealthier peers and being left out of middle class team building activities.
Things like this are very class divisive these days.

I remember a parent telling me on parents evening that her child misbehaved because he was bored and had never liked my subject. I had to patiently explain that he might enjoy the subject more if he engaged with the learning and that even if he disliked it he was expected to be polite and do his work. She seemed to think this was a bonkers point of view.

Second this. I don't see anything wrong or disrespectful in discussing teachers' way of teaching.
Sadly, sometimes we have to discuss difficult matters too - teachers showing favouritism towards their own children in class, making mistakes in basic arithmetics calculations etc. And we have to discuss this with children, not gossiping with parents.

I had the opposite issue 10 years ago when a teacher at DDs school was physically and emotionally abusing students and everyone acknowledged it and made excuses. No one would do anything for fear it would "impact their child". Now things seem to have swung too far the other way.

I think this is a double edged sword, personally. I certainly don't pine for the days when teachers could close the classroom door and bully, terrify and brutalise the children. Parents slavishly backing up teachers without doing any due diligence and delivering a second beating at home to show willing - no thanks. And I'm a teacher.

Some sort of happy medium would be ideal.

A happy medium would be lovely!
There is a vast difference between brutal, corporal punishment style teacher which was abhorrent to expecting a calm, settled and mutually respectful learning so that everyone can learn.

We had complaints because we weren't offering the big trips anymore. Not fair on the handful of children whose parents could still afford £950 skiing, £2.7 grand playing rugby in South Africa, £1550 going to New York and a bit of charity tourism in Africa (to be partly paid for by charging other - poorer - people's kids to wear hats or fancy dress), apparently.

Oh, the local highly rated private school still does them, do they? That's nice, dear.

I think most parents are ok. The issue is that the not ok ones also tend to be the ones that shout the loudest. Experiences will also account for a lot. Parents experience a lot of school staff during their kid's school career. Some great, some not so great , some truly awful. It's also very subjective.

I loved DD's y4 teacher and so did another handful of parents, but the vast majority didn't, and for some reason neither did some of the school staff so she was basically bullied out.

On the other hand, I really disliked her y6 teacher and we had some issues, whereas some parents thought she was absolutely amazing.

There should be an amount of respect awarded to someone, simply because they are a person, unless they're an awful human being. That's different to respecting them as a teacher .