School place appeal back from abroad - siblings

[Sofero]

Hello I am wondering if anyone can help. We moved back our area having been away for 2 years working. My eldest 2 children were not offered places at their school of choice initially for this term but now the youngest has been. I have another child who is in year 6 and should therefore get a place next year due to sibling. It is now only my oldest who is in year 9.

I cannot send her to the school they have offered (which tbf is our catchment school ) - she wouldnt survive - she has no diagnosis / ehcp because not needed but definitely ASD traits. Is there anything i can do. She is on the waiting list for counselling for low level mental health, has a heart condition requiring lots of appointments and knows no-one at the other school which is huge; her mental health is at real risk if we dont get her in soon. She is 2nd on the waiting list with a sibling there. We are currently paying for a private school which we cant afford but better than her being out of education.

Would just love to ger her settled before GCSE choices.

Are you sure the sibling rules apply to the year 6
I think in our area they're just for reception entry

@drowninginsick

OP is talking about entry into secondary so of course they apply.

Are they’re any solid reasons she can’t go to her catchment area other than it’s rough? Because that won’t be enough. If she had just moved and started into a school in year 9 and you suspect ASD then I wouldn’t be moving her. I think it’s unlikely she will settle well before GCSEs in this short space of time and 3 schools in a year is a lot to ask of the most confident and adaptable child and you suggest your child isn’t.

If you don't accept the school offered you do realise they won't offer another as they will have discharged their duty. Do you intend to home school if you can't afford private any longer?

In some areas sibling link doesn’t apply to secondary schools.

@Lifeglowup yes that's what I meant. In our area the youngest getting a spot wouldn't affect either older child going into year 6 or year 9 so just flagging it as something to check is all.

Sounds like a tough situation op but I think your options are find a secondary for oldest out of catchment with space and drive or send her to the local school and use the money you're spending on private school fees (or a portion of this) to give support like tutoring/therapy/activities to find her crowd etc

Unfortunately, no. The reasons you state won't be enough for them to offer an alternative school. As someone else pointed out if you refuse the school offered, they have fulfilled their duty of offering a placement. You'd have no option but to homeschool or pay for private education. Your daughter has low mental health, but has no official diagnosis but you suspect low ND. It's all too vague, and they simply won't be interested.

When I moved back to the uk my year three child wasn't given a place at all. There were no schools in the whole county with a space.

She was out of school for months and months whilst I applied and appealed, applied and appealed over and over again.

Eventually she was given a place at our catchment school in a Fair Access Protocol basis.

It was an incredibly difficult time for her. She'd left her home and school and all of her friends on the other side of the world behind and she knew nobody at all and she couldn't make friends because she wasn't in school and she was embarrassed to do other things because she wasn't in school.

I don't know what you mean by 'she won't survive' but I'd think carefully before rejecting a place in your local school.

The LA has fulfilled its responsibility by offering a place. The fact you don't want the school is irrelevant.

You can appeal for a place at the school you want. For a successful appeal, you need to show that the disadvantage to your daughter from not attending this school outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil. You would be appealing for the school you want, not against the school that has been offered. Your concerns about that school are not relevant, nor is the fact you can't really afford the independent school. You need to identify specific things that this school offers that she will miss out on if she doesn't get a place.

Thank you. I appreciate the point about 3 schools in a year. That is alot for any child. Maybe staying where she is is better than risking change. We would have to remortgage though

She is very low and refusing to do any after school clubs which is out if character. She never goes outside at school and for a child who has been roaming round the world its stifling. She is so lonely. Not one friend made yet. She just gets her head down. Its also over an hour on the bus. However it was a better option than the local school for her.

It has nearly 3000 kids, she has bright red hair, is studious, quiet , really socially awkward and brilliantly unique. She would be eaten alive in year 9 - she wouldnt have one friend to catch the bus with - whereas the other one there are about 10 kids we know all going from the bottom of our road. The year group is 450 kids there. She has come from a school with 250 in the whole school. Of course loads of kids are fine there and its not about the school itself - my youngest could go there fine with mates in year 7 if needed - its just not a school for this particular child.

The sibling link does bump them up the list - its part of the admission criteria and we are about a mile outside catchment so kids near us usually get year 7 places anyway.

So just wondering what, if anything, i can do.

If she was offered the place in september can i still appeal now? I didnt at the time because we thought she would get a place from the waiting list before christmas but not happened so far. ..

You could appeal or apply for an ehcp naming the school you want, but both will take time. Would be easier to reconcile yourself to paying until sixth form.

You can appeal saying why the school is suitable for her. However her hair colour and being quiet and the size of your catchment school will be completely irrelevant.

You need to say why the school will be more suitable.

An appeal would be much quicker than an EHCP. An appeal must be heard within 30 school days of being lodged, so if you appeal now it must be heard by mid-January at the latest. If successful, your daughter should be able to attend the school from late January or early February. However, it is likely you will still have to pay the independent school's fees until the end of the summer term as most such schools require a full term's notice. And you will need a stronger case than you have set out here to have a realistic chance of winning an appeal.

OP, you can go on the waiting list for any schools you think suitable.

It’s hard but I think you will need to keep her where she is until a place you think suitable comes up.

My Dc went to our big local comprehensive which included a very challenging intake, but being big also had a critical mass of quiet / quirky / nerdy / clever / dyslexic / vulnerable children so that everyone could find their tribe and the pastoral care was good.

Have you visited and asked how they support children with MH etc issues?

Anyway, I hope you get a suitable place quickly.

(prh47bridge , posting above, is a lawyer who has advised many MNers with admissions issues and has sound experience)

Their obligation to to provide a place, which they have done. Can u not move into catchment area of school?

If you think your child has ASD traits I'd think very carefully about changing schools again, it gets harder. I'd accept paying for the independent school until after she's finished her GCSEs, if she's struggling with her mental health now a further school move won't help.

My daughter has ADHD and ASD andher needs weren't being met in the state sector - I've had to accept I'll be paying for independent school

Are you honestly saying that out of 450 children in a year group they will all be horrible to her and 'eat her alive'?

Have you actually looked at the school properly? Visited? Done a trial day? Discussed your concerns with the staff?

I have an ND quirky DD in a school with a similar number in the year and there are quantities of every kind of child imaginable, and the staff are very quick to step in with any cases of unkindness. Much easier to find your tribe with a potential friendship pool that big.

I think being so against the catchment school because she wouldn't survive was a bit of a mistake.

My other dd, got a place at our local secondary school. The school was in special measures and in an area of deprivation. She was the second non-white child in the whole school. She had a foreign accent, started on a random Tuesday, didn't know a single other child and on her first day had four lessons she had absolutely no knowledge of whatsoever. She was also at least a year and a half behind academically.

I felt sick that whole day and arrived to pick her up half an hour early (along with her no school place sister) and she came over to us in the carpark and asked if she could stay late to go to netball club.

Being in a school close to where we live allowed her to more easily make friends and made the move easier. She was fine, despite being quite different from the other kids. She found her own place and made friends. Academically she caught up and now she’s doing a history degree despite never learning any history to speak of until she was twelve.

How much have you genuinely looked at the school on offer, and how much have you made assumptions based on stereotypes and click bait?

DD's school, for example, had various spaces for more vulnerable pupils to go.in breaks and lunchtime that were quiet and semi-supervised. They had a buddy system for pupils joining out of the usual schedule, and DD had an individual timetable from day one to gradually integrate (we came back to the UK by chance just before lock down and she was out of school for nearly a year). Any bullying was promptly dealt with. She had a token to show to teachers if she wasn't coping and could go to the support centre which was quiet and informal and staff would help her settle and get back to work in a safe setting. This was a large city secondary comp.

Don't make assumptions, talk to them about your DD's vulnerabilities and see what they say.

Tbh sometimes the 'big' and 'rough' schools are the ones with genuine expertise and interest in supporting pupils with specific needs, simply because they see so.much of it.

That won’t a difference for an in year application.

It may do. It won't get OP's daughter a place, but it may move her from 2nd to 1st in the waiting list.

It is quite unlikely two children will leave the preferred school before the start of year 10, unfortunately