Do you feel you are *entitled* to the "best" school for your children?

[UnquietDad]

If so, why?

and just a few other questions/points.

Define "best"

and

Does this apply also to people up the road?

and

Does this apply also to people in different social classes?

i.e if you're entitled to the "best" school why isn't everyone else?

Is there a middle-class sense of "entitlement" to the "best schools" in this country?
Is the problem that we have such a variation in standards of schools across a supposedly comprehensive system?
Is it people playing the system, moving out of catchment, "getting faith" etc, and making themselves part of the problem and not part of the solution?
Or is the issue simply one of being too obsessed by the schools that do well in the league tables and/or have a nice uniform?

(It's a quiet Saturday... Walks away whistling, hands in pockets... Gas Mark 6, set to simmer. I'll be back...)

"The whole idea that if you want to send your children to a "good" school than all you need to do is get a "good" degree followed by a "good" job with "good" money is rather startlingly simplistic."

colour me simple

And "affording" to opt out also means those who can afford to home educate

I do think scienceteacher was taken out context

Thank you, Cammelia

And colour me simple too

Picking less than the best is "damaging" in the sense that just feeding them junk food is damaging as is never talking to them etc. So that is why most parents do try to find the best school that suits their child that they can as schooling is so important.

'stop whinging, and go private.

/shrug

study engineering at university and get a good job.'

Well I don't think it requires a huge degree of insight to see why many people find the above views at best simplistic and superficial, and at worst pretty offensive.

I am wondering how the notion of 'supportive parent' works.

I am a supportive parent in that I instill a sense of values in my children (to behave, do their hw, etc.), and I will support the school whenever asked. I will also equip my children for school, provide them with a place to do homework, and take a genuine interest in their day (my teenagers hate this aspect of my supportiveness).

I'm not sure what else I can do to be supportive. I don't think I could really support when there are dire classroom situations (fortunately mine don't have these, but I've seen them in my days of supply teaching). I can't be with them for the 7 hours they are at school to support them when things are suboptimal.

I suspect that supportive parent is a term that is loosely thrown around but doesn't actually hold much water.

Oh absolutely Xenia. But then it's a pretty sad and limited human being who thinks they can achieve 'the best' in every aspect of life. I feed my children a healthy balanced diet most of the time, and occasionally they have a burger. They read quality fiction most of the time; now and then they buy a trashy magazine. I have no problem with that. It's called living. What a huge pressure to put on children to make them feel we can never do anything that's 'good enough'- it's got to be the 'best'.

but alfiesbabe, those things were said in response to a general "its not fair" attitude.

Which is fairly unproductive in itself.

Cammelia - but it is not the state's responsibility to ensure your child receives a good education. it's yours as the parent.

Actually ST what you describe above as supportive parenting is not to be underestimated (in terms of its relation to academic and otherwise success) and is actually not as common as you might expect except on mumsnet. I wish all the parents of students I teach offered the sort of support you imply and in an ideal world one might expect to be normal.

Beautifuldays, I rest my case.

As, obviously I meant its not my responsibility for the mess the state system is in

Do you know what I'm not actually sure what the argument is here. I'm not sure how far anyone addressed the original post. Don't think 'entitlement' is a helpful term as regards education in the current climate.

Surely no one disagrees that in an ideal world the state would provide the best possible education to all our children?

But the reality is that esp with league tables and more parental 'choice' many parents will work the system or opt out of it.

Not really sure where the debate is

Well Cammelia, I've re-read the first few posts and don;t see any general 'it's not fair' comments at all, which I would agree would not be particularly constructive. The OP raises a serious issue and puts forward some pertinent questions. Personally I can see why STs comments caused offence. But obviously if you want to defend them, you disagree.

yes, especially supporting the school, 5C

agree with that. we would all like a state system to provide a godd education for every child in the country, but that just aint gonna happen with the system as it currently stands. therefore my priority has to be to get my children the best education for them. whatever that may be.

it also really annoys me when people say oh a bright child will do well whatever school they go to. rubbish. i moved from a (state) selective girls grammar to a comp when i was 15 due to moving area. i loved the grammar school, but i (and my parents) really had to fight to get a decent enough education for me at the comp, my dad ended up forking out for a private tutor for my gcse german because there wasn't any room for me in the top set at the comp

There's no point getting offended - its only a discussion

I agree that noone can object to every child having the best education - however you define best/ I think the debate is between the pragmatists and the idealists

The pragmatists see the facts and decide that they have to take responsibility for educating their own children

The idealists want to change the system and think that lots of parental support will do the trick

I sort of admire the idealists in a way - so energetic of them

I'm an idealist who has taken the pragmatic step of taking responsibility for my child's education away from the state

not offended in the least Cammelia.

i would love it if the state managed to provide a good education for every child. however there is no avoiding the fact that it doesn't. it lets a lot of children down. DS has not even started school yet but he has been allocated a place at our local catchment school. i will probably try it out, but it will definately still be my responsibility that he is getting the education he deserves, and if the local state school can't provide it we will go elsewhere.

I think it's the rather vague OP I'm struggling with and trying to work out what's really bothering UQD. As ever this seems have become the same old debate about private v state schools and moving house, adopting a faith etc.

UQD the govt and the opposition have been banging on about giving us more 'choice' which is presumably the same thing as your 'entitlement' for decades. They tell us we have 'choices', they create increasingly diverse schools (which lead to or exacerbate social inequalities), they provide us with information (league tables) which help us/ motivate us to exercise our 'choices'.

The reality as we all know is that the amount of 'choice' or 'entitlement' you have is likely to be related to the amount of knowledge, money and/or faith that you have.In the current climate it really doesn't matter whether you personally think that your access to a good education SHOULD BE dependent on these factors the fact is that they are.

As I've said to knock individuals for exercising the choices that the Govt has been promoting is a bit silly.

I do think my child is entitled to the best education that I can provide for him, yes.

That does not remove the same entitlement from anyone else's child. I do not see my child's good education as taking anything away from anyone else, IYSWIM.

If the state sector does not provide what I consider best for him, I will go private. That does not mean that i think everyone else should go private, or that they are bad parents if they do not.

I can understand a frustration or resentment in those whose children are not getting what they need in the state sector, and cannot afford private, but I'm afraid I dont see why I should make a sacrificial lamb of my son for ideal of universal comprehensive (in the proper sense of the word) education. He is onlt going to get one childhood, one education. Its selfish but other people's children are not my problem. That doesn't mean I don't care, but just that I will apply my resources to helping my child first.

I don't think the OP is vague. The questions are huge, yes, but not vague.