From nursery to primary - 4.5yr boy - what's your opinion

[roseybump]

DS1 could possibly go to P1 this August, he will be 4.5 yrs. ADvice from practically all mums and teachers is to keep a boy back a year, as there will be problems later on in education if he is constantly 'the underdog'. Understand the reasoning behind this, but I am wondering about the pros of going into school at this age - need to balance the argument. Having a total dilema here - his pals will all be moving on into primary school, and if I keep him in nursery he will end up being with a small group of ante pre-schoolers (3 yr olds... including his 'baby brother'). He knows these youngsters as his baby-brothers friends.
Would really value your comments, esp from mums who have put their sons into school at this age and how they are getting on.
Heeeeelp!

My ds will be 4.6 when he goes to Reception in September.

It has never occured to me to keep him back and I haven't come across any other parents or teachers who have suggested this.

What are the reasons you've heard for keeping him back?

Don't most boys go to school at this age in the UK? I don't understand why they are advising this.

My son's birthday is at the end of June and he started in a reception class in the September. He was fine. He started full time from the October and we've never looked back. There were also children with july and aug birthdays in his class who started at the same time. I don't think it's down to age. Older children in his class seem less mature than he is.

He won't be "the underdog". At 4.5 he is unlikely to be anywhere near the youngest child in his class - there will be children who are only just 4 - and Reception is mainly learning through play so he won't struggle.

The real difficulty will be Year 1 if you've kept him out of Reception - Year 1 is a lot harder, and if he goes there straight from Nursery he will struggle dreadfully.

I think since Roseybump refers to P1 she is in Scotland, and up here they start from 4.5 to 5.5, not from just 4. Roseybump - what month is his birthday? I know Jan & Feb are about 50/50 on starting or deferring, earlier months are more likely to start than not. Are the nursery saying they think he won't be ready, or is this more general advice? If all his pals are going up, he may feel worse being left with the babies than he would do having to keep up at school. But that does depend on his personality etc of course.

roseybump - I am a primary teacher in Scotland and although I have never taught nursery/P1 (although did both when training) I would say hold him back! From what my friends and colleauges who teach these stages say, it is never a bad move. If I were ever to have a baby born in Jan/Feb (and esp if he were a boy) I would ALWAYS hold them back. My own class of P6 (well, I am on Mat leave just now as I am pg and due!) had lots of boys who were deferred when they were at nursery (lots of Dec/Jan/Feb birthdays) and they are coping soooooo well. So much more mature, able to cope with the work load, "cooler" than the rest of the class, girls like them, etc.

Don't worry about the fact that his friends will be moving on - he'll make new friends.

At the end of the day, if the nursery and/or P1 teacher is advising it, they know best. Trust their judgement. I know it's a massive decision for you but if you hold him back, he'll have the edge for the rest of his education in my opinion.

Can I ask a stupid question here - why boys in particular?

Some people feel that boys are less emotionally mature than girls and should be given more freedom and/or allowances than girls of a similar age.

I can see their pov to some extent. But at the end of teh day, a lot (but not all) boys and girls play in different ways. And that is what is not accommodated imo.

But I also have seen articles from the 1950s which bemoan teh fact that girls were taking up too many grammar school places so they introduced the quota system.

MErcy - interested in hearing more about the 'quota' situation - is this still adopted now? could this be a factor in the drive to defer as far as the school are concerned? His birthday is the end of January, so he is in the 50/50 mark. I wouldnt feel so bad about deferring if he had retained his slot in the morning session with the other pre-schoolers (approx a year younger than him) but he will be with the ante pre-schoolers (almost 2 years younger) and there seems to be no scope for flexibility ie reviewing the age mix across the sessions. My gut feel is defer, but the prospect of him being with the 'babies' and seeing his peers move on to P1 (he will continue to play with these peers outside of school as it is a small community) I am worried about his confidence being affected. arararaghghghgh. One thought would be to defer him later in primary (it is made up largely of composite classes and maybe wouldnt notice being held back) but not sure whether this is achievable. I am really starting to lose sleep over this and dont seem to make any headway with nursery teachers or headteacher.

roseybump, from what I've heard deferring later isn't usually an option and in any case it could be more damaging to his self esteem to be held back later than now. Presumably he's the youngest of his peers at the moment, so I'd just tell him he's not quite old enough for school yet.

It sounds as though the main problem is that there aren't many other children in his current nursery that will be in the same year group as him if you defer. Is it possible to find another activity for him to do (or even a new nursery) where there will be a number of children that will be in the same school year and school as him?

It's not just emotional maturity that's less developed for boys, their fine motor control (compare boys & girls handwriting) is usually well behind and they're often less good at sitting still too.

Reading your last post I see the problem - he'll be in the wrong nursery class if you defer. That's a thorny problem & I'm surprised the nursery can't accomodate him in the right place. How many sessions a week has he been offered? Is it 5 afternoon sessions? If so, could you cut it down to 2 or 3 and do some other things in the other afternoons with his true peers?

I don't have a ds, but my dd has a late January birthday and we chose to start her in P1 at 5.5 rather than 4.5. I think it was the right thing to do, but it took a while for dd to accept, especially when a neighbour's son who is 10 days younger than her started school at 4.5. She is in P5 now and has been in composite classes every year except P3 so in the main has been in exactly the same classes as she would have been if she had started at 4.5. This annoyed me at first, but is now working out well as she is quite able academically so is in groups with the P6s for spelling and reading etc..

She was at a small private daycare nursery, so they were able to find her things to do to stretch her, although I felt she was probably ready for school by her 5th birthday. It worked in our favour, though, that there was only 1 child from her nursery starting her school when she was 4.5, but about 5 or 6 when she was 5.5.

I think it would be much harder to defer your ds when he is higher up the school. If the nursery staff think he should be deferred I would go with that. You also have to think ahead to secondary school. Would you rather he was a year older and more confident when he started ?

I wish I had deffered my son's school entry (his birthday is DEc.20). he is in P3 and is still behind his peers in social and emotional development.

its not easy to get deferred, lots of authorities are clamping down on this as lots of parents want to do this as they feel it would give their child a better advantage in class. i was going to defer dd, i needed two statements, one from nursery and one from her pediatrician. i decided not to in the end as she has a place at a really good school and may not if she was to start next year.

Oooooh this "keep boys back" arguement really winds me up! I have 2 boys, both with December birthdays. Ds1 started school in the Sept before his 5th birthday and has always been in the top sets for everything and "beats" most of the girls in his class when they have tests. DS2 started full time school in the September before his 4th birthday, they took the eldest few from Nursery to make up the reception numbers so they didn't loose a teacher. He was soon top of his class too, he still is now and has a maturity far greater than his 11 years. It is nothing to do with being a boy or girl it is just children are different. I would send him to school with is peers, I know had Ds1 gone into the nursery with his Brother whilst his friends had moved on to school he would have been devestated. I think he will blossom at school and his confidence will grow, I think you are right to be worried about the fact that he will be away from his social group. Only you know your child though, but neither of my boys have suffered from going to school at 4, infact DS2 used to have to be prised from me before he went to school and he soon blossomed into a confident boy .
Do what you feel is best. Just a thought have you asked your DS what he wants to do?

Ds will be 4.7 in Sept.
Like Mercy, never even occured to me to keep him back.

DD started school at 4y7m and was more than ready. She thrived from day 1. She would have been ready even early given the chance, lol.

Ds3 will 4 and about 5 days when he starts - he is more than ready. I'm not worried about it.

sorry, missed the Scottish bit.

Are you in England? I only ask as I am surprised that this is the advice you are getting. Ds started school in Sep at 4 yrs 3 months and has been fine. His only problem is that he is enormous and the teachers sometimes have to remind themselves that he is still only 4. Keeping him in nursery longer would not have benefited him at all.

I think it very much depends on your child.

DS has a mid-July b'day, he didn't start in SEptember after he was 4 as our schools have a twice-yearly intake, but when he started in the January before he was 5 he was one of the youngest in the class, but also more than ready to start school.

He suddenly grew up in the last 3 months before he started school - when he got his place, I was sure he was 'too young'. By the time he started, he was very ready. Because of the January intake, most of DS's freinds are the young boys in the calss, too - and they are all doing very well.

In an English school, Reception is v gentle, learning through play etc. I think he would definitely have outgrown the pre-school nursery he was at and found it boring or 'babyish' - especially if he was with much younger children.

DS is doing well. He has been slower to read than I expected he would, but I have just shrugged and thought 'well, he's very young in his year'. And he's doing very well now, once it clicked.

If your child is unsure of himself, very shy or nervous and / or you think he might struggle academically, then it might be best to hold him back - all depends on the child.

One thing to bear in mind is that there is no perfect answer, no 'right' way to do it, as both options have their pros and cons. Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but a lot of parents always feel they have to justify themselves and claim to have done the right thing. It's a bit more of a grey area than that I think.
IMO, there are pros in sending at 4.5 but they won't be likely to last. Your DS will be happy to be with his friends, you will have more free time, maybe you will save on childcare costs (if you're working), you will probably feel thrilled when he starts learning to read/add up etc. BUT, if the long-term cons (being socially behind, struggling with the work load, being tired, even hitting puberty later than his classmates when they're at secondary), if these then rear their ugly heads, you will be left regretting your decision.
This is what helped me decide. I felt that one year of thinking 'maybe I should have sent him' would be easier to bear than, down the line, having several/many years of 'wish I'd made him wait'.
It was a bit of a struggle convincing DS that nursery was still fun during that last year, but we got through it, and it went quicker than I thought it would.
Re the morning/afternoon nursery place, I'd be inclined to kick up a fuss with the local authority - it seems to have worked with several friends of mine who were in similar positions (they always keep a couple of places open for people moving to the area, so it's not inconceivable that you could get one of those reserved places).

thanks heaps - all these thoughts just verify my concerns / doubts and make me feel less ludicrous for fretting so much. scotsgirl your thoughts are where I am at the mo - I am appealing at the school and if no success there I will take it further.

rosey - we have a jan born DD who we sent at 4.5, on the advice on nursery etc. she is doing fine academically and socially BUT we now ( in p4) see quite a difference between her and her peers, many of whom are almost a year older. we are now wondering if we did the right thing

we have a jan born ds and are seriously considering deferring him. he will have the additional issues of being a boy and being the baby in a large family

we are particularly concerned about how he will cope being "young" in the early years of high school, when there is such a big gap anyway between the boys and girls

we are adjusting his nursery places so he will not be in nursery with ante pre schoolers

we are also influenced by Dhs expereince, as a late feb baby who went to uni at 16! although he was sucessful (eventually got a PhD)he feels he woudl have done better being the oldest rather than the youngest

KristinaM, the Uni thing is an interesting point, and our nursery school teacher said the same thing to me (as her son had gone at 17 and really struggled with it). I forgot to mention that in my above post, but it's just another of those things that show up later down the line that you don't think about when they're just 4.
And even if they don't go to Uni/college, they will be job hunting alongside other older teens, so the same still applies.