I'm torn. DH is re-connecting with Catholic past so kids can get into Catholic school.

[bungalowbelle]

I'm uneasy and yet strangely defiant about this.

The secondary school we're in the catchment for is two miles away IF we're lucky enough to get it. There's a 50/50 chance we'll have to go to one even further away UNLESS DH rekindles the Catholic within. Then we'd be able to send the kids to a really good, Catholic school with large grounds about two hundred yards away.

DH was brought up Catholic. He stopped going to church and has one or two major problems with Catholisism, but also relates to a large percentage of it. He's keen and wants to go ahead. He has already begun the process.

He'd have to get the kids baptised, be confirmed himself ... and in all honestly he wouldn't be doing it were it not for the school issue.

One of my children has a serious medical condition which needs constant management. I would be very unhappy to have him travel a long way from home every day.

I still feel confused and guilty though. What do you reckon?

Message withdrawn

Do we know that the OP won't get in yet? There were lots of non-Catholic kids at my school. Perhaps if she were to apply without having her kids baptised the school would accept her.

Where I live this is the reason why parents want their dcs to go to these schools.
At the nearest non catholic secondary school to us 35% of children leave with 5 or more A to C grade gcses. At the next nearest non catholic high school 20% leave with no gcses at all. At the local Catholic school 78% leave with five or more A to C grade gcses. These schools catchment areas cover the same type of social economic group and are not selective on the basis of ability. It's pretty easy to see why these schools are popular imo.
I think what we should be questioning is why these schools are more successful and what can be done to replicate this academic achievement at non faith schools. Rather than questioning why someone would want to do what ever it took to get their child in to a sucessful school.
We are not Catholic and hadn't considered our local Catholic primary when dc2 was coming up to school age (ds1 was in special ed). He did, however go to a playgroup that was held at the school. It was at the suggestion of the playgroup leader that I went to enquire about a place. The head did explain that priority would be given to Catholic children but he would be offered a place if there were any available after this. He was offered a place, and as the school had a good reputation and he had made friends with other children attending the school, we accepted. He later transferred to the Catholic high school. Don't all schools have a published admissions criteria? I had copies of these when we were choosing a school and these also showed how many children were admitted in each catagory. So you can reasonably work out what criteria you would have to fulfil to get a be in with a chance of getting place.
I have never had any problems with the religious aspect of his education. DS was expected to take part in mass etc. but I would expect this at a faith school. In fact RE was one of his best subjects. He got an a* and only dropped 6 marks out of 200. He has a very rounded view on all religions, He was certainly taught Darwin's take on evolution, He is not anti gay and was taught about contraception. The religous part of his education was most definately centered on tolerance, morals and respect for one another. No bad thing imo. They definately integrate the non catholic children...My dd, who is now at the same Catholic primary school, regularly reads at Mass ...mainly because she is a confident young thing who will happily get up in front of the whole congregation!!
I do know of someone who did convert to Catholicism in order to get her ds into an oversubscribed Catholic school. Would I do the same? Probably not but I wouldn't have considered a Cathoilc school if it hadn't been suggested to me and, as the local schools do take non Catholics it was never necessary. That said I would never condemn someone for wanting the best available education for their dc

Some Catholic schools are harder to get into than others- the local one to me does take the children of other Christians and even non-believers.

As for the OP- if your dh is going to reconnect with his inner Catholic to access this school, one question I would consider first is what you are going to tell the children. It's not just a question of making a good impression on the local priest- the real questioning will be closer at home. The day will come when they insist on discussing his religious convictions with them. Will he tell them he had a re-conversions at the time they started school or will he tell them that he is acting a part? Think carefully about how either answer will affect their attitude towards him and towards truth in general.

Oh, and most mainstream Christians have no problem in believing that God created the world by means of evolution and that the account in Genesis is poetical language used to portray the writer's sense of awe at the majesty of the creation. So they wouldn't use it as a scientific textbook, any more than you would have used Burn's poem 'My love is like a red, red rose' to identify his girlfriend among a class of 30.

The reason you feel guilty is because you know its wrong. Whether other families do it or not is irrelevant. Lying and cheating is not the way to enter any faith, be it Catholicism or another.

If he can reconcile himself to the hypocracy of it all, then go ahead.

My mother is one of the staunchest catholics I know (apart from an aunt!). She would certainly say it was hypocritical if I were to do it (lapsed catholic, me!). However, the church itself says "give me a child until he is 7 and he will be mine for life" or something like that. Therefore your husband is and always was a catholic whether he knew it or not. (My own experience is that you do always carry some bit of catholicism with you, it doesn't just go away because you have intellectually rejected it. In my case, the most obvious bit of catholicism I am still stuck with is 'catholic guilt' - dh is always saying "that's your catholic guilt coming out"!)

The church also bids you to accept God's Will - he knows what is best. If he wants your kids to go to the catholic school then your husband's ploy will work. God may also decide to welcome your dh back into the church and turn this superficial return into a real one. So be prepared for that!

you are deluded . It won't work.

yes, wise words from barnstaple.

Would you be happy to have the parish priest coming into school regularly, taking assemblies, celebrating Mass on holy days etc? Would you like to see your dc taking part in class assemblies, writing bidding prayers, seeing your DCs friends all preparing for confirmation? Is it healthy if the children get a totally different message at home?

I don't know how most RC secondary schools deal with homosexuality. I know that at my DCs' RC primary school a motto that is stuck on all the cloakrooms is "everyone is different and everyone is special" which I love, and is how I think many schools (RC or otherwise) actively encourage children to view the world.

If I were you, I would be happier if he was "cynically faking a faith for the express purpose of duping a school", rather than rekindling his Catholicism.

I went to Roman Catholic schools myself. I hated the narrowness, the stifling of debate and the hypocrisy.

And I still think it is shocking that in a state school, in the 1980's, in a major British city, I could reach the age of 17 without meeting a single English child - they weren't Catholic so they didn't get in.

If you think it is the best thing for your children and you can do it, I would have no compunction about duping them. After all, they have no compunction about taking your taxes.

But I think the other posters are right - you are going to find it an uphill struggle. They've realised how popular they are and they've raised the bar. Do a bit of snooping and good luck.

I have only read the op , and I have to say that I would do whatever it takes to get my children in to the best school for them !

Think about explaining this duplicity and hypocracy to your adult children.

"So, all this crap you taught me all through my childhood, you mean you didn't believe any of it?"

"So, when you agreed with my teachers when they said that sex before marriage and contraception was a sin, homosexuals go to hell and scientific research on a cluster of 4 human cells that might cure Parkinson's disease was tantamount to murder, you didn't believe any of that either?"

"And you sent me all these mixed messages for my own good?"

I don't think deception is a good basis on which to build a family.

"hypocracy"

Did someone mention nuns?

Although my schools were run by them, I think you'll find they're pretty thin on the ground these days. They are at dds school anyway - and that school is next to a home of rest for nuns.

I am an active member of our parish and would like to assure the op that I have never had to do any sewing or cleaning, that is all done by a select group of affectionatly known as the blue rinse brigade ladies who would fall to the floor if anyone tried to muscle in on that .
I have however done lots of other things childrens groups,fairs ect.
On our application for senior school our priest was asked for the actual date of baptism and first holy communion some schools are now insisting that they have been taken at more or less the correct time,eg within 6/12 months of birth and about 7 years.

Sorry I am new to mumsnet and actually going through ths dilema at the moment so I hope this helps but I have done some relief teaching in Catholic schools (admittedly a few years ago)and I would not be too worried about creationist teachings etc. I never encountered it infact other than a weekly religion class and the odd mass they are very similar to standard schools. I actually found them far more open minded and tolerant than my preconceived stereotyped expectations.
I fakely smile at nursery teachers, daughter's friends and parents and the interest I feign for so many things in order to support my daughter has amazed even me. As parents it is what we do...if your hubby (sorry need to learn the abbreviations!!!)is keen let him do it. The fact you are feeling a bit guilty is in my experience a very good Catholic trait anyway!
The education system really concerns me and is not always fair - you have to do whatever you can to get the best/most suitable for your children.

if her son has medical needs, it is quite possible that the LEA will pay for a taxi to ferry him to and from school. More than one boy in our catholic secondary has this arrangement. One comes from about 5 miles away (from o/s the LEA) and another from about 3. They had many other schools to choose from but their parents chose this secondary.

The imagery of how catholics are portrayed is really alien to me on these threads many times so i stay away from them. They imply some deeply held prejudice ignorance that many of these posters have no clue they are revealing.

well said CilC. I have also found Catholic schools more tolerant than none Catholic ones. I am currently teaching at a Catholic school in the UK but have had teaching experience in 3 state secondaries prior to my current post. I know which one I prefer to teach in and which one I would prefer to send my dd to. And no, it is not just down to academic standards either. It is also down to the pastoral care and the focus on developing the emotional and social sides of the children.

My dd's go to a Catholic convent school now, and, whilst I'm not saying that people haven't had appalling experiences in the past, our experiences just do not match those or the image of Catholic schooling which some people have.

I personally don't worry about indoctrination. Maybe I should - perhaps I'll suffer 40 years hence when dd1 is trying to persuade me to make death bed confession for the sake of my mortal soul, while I grind out "the Red Flag" under my breath. I'll take that chance

I'm Irish, was brought up catholic as most of us were but finally decided at 17 that I didn't believe in it so only go to Mass on "special occasions" now!
To clarify on Creationism, the only Catholic that I know who believes in Creationism is MIL and she is totally barking! We were taught evolution as part of our science curriculum and the idea of creationism wasn't even mentioned once in science class. Or any other class, now that you mention it. Even in religious education which was one class a week, We were taught that the book of Genesis was basically a metaphor and not to be taken literally.
Oh, and if you can find a nun or a "brother" these days, let me know! They are few and far between, the Catholic church in Ireland is having a huge crisis as there are virtually no "vocations" amongst the younger people. I am 39 and not one girl in my class of 90 in secondary school became a nun, in fact no-one in my entire acquaintance has ever entered a religious order. I'm sure it's no different in the UK. Even at that, most of the nuns who taught us were fine with one or two exceptions but I do think the exceptions tend to stick in your mind! The same is probably true of most teachers, the most evil teacher I ever had wasn't a nun!

And I think that even if you are worried about what they are being taught, bear in mind that it is by and large what you teach them at home that they will believe. Even my friends who still go to Mass on a weekly basis use contraception, you don't see many Catholic families nowadays with more than 2 children and they are not abstaining from sex! If you teach them that homosexuality is fine then that is what they will believe and I think it's unlikely that the subject would come up in primary school anyway.

As to Catholic guilt, I've been lapsed for many years and not felt one shred of guilt!

I wouldnt have thought you'd stand much chance tbh of getting in. If it is an oversubscribed school then you'd have to have been going to church every week for years (not just 2), your children should have gone to a catholic primary and if this wasnt possible should have attended saturday classes for children not at catholic schools, they should have been baptised soon after birth, gone through the holy communion thing (means attending a series of classes leading up to the ceremony), preferably be altar servers, as parents at least one of you should have been helping out in the church for several years e.g. childrens liturgy (which of course your own children would have been going to), cleaning the church, helping out at fetes, what did you also do to help out in your catholic primary?

You will also need to be 'interviewed' by the parish priest who knows you best where your own schooling and why you want a catholic education for your children will be discussed.

If you dont do all the above and the school is oversubscribed you will be at the bottom of the list.

The lea can arrange and pay for a taxi for your child with sen to go to school too.

you have a greater chance of geting in if you become pally with the priest - IE going to lsons to get yourkids baptised. and going to lessons to get confirmed. be best buddies witht hepriest and you will have a better chance

but dont bitch aout caholacism when they do.

yo biggest fear shouldn't the churches view on homosexuality, but rather te level of sex ed they are given and people telling them that condoms are pants and abstinence is better - savie it til marriage and all tht shite.

bsides if your kids love and respect you - you could tell them the sky was green and your kids would believe you - not the school

My dcs go to Catholic schools...primary and secondary. Both were over subscribed but I didn't do any of the things hercules mentions. We are not even Catholic but were still sucessful in getting a place. You can't make generalisations about different schools which is why I suggested the op obtained copies of her particular school's admissions criteria and how many children were admitted in each catagory to give a better idea what it would take to get in. Just being a baptised Catholic would pretty well guarantee a place at our local Catholic high school. Not the case at other schools I know which is why you need to do your research.

My ds has now left secondary and is at sixth form but never in his whole time at high school did anyone tell him condoms were pants or advocate the merits of abstinance or tell him to save it till marriage. He recieved very good sex education which was backed up by further info from dp and I at home.

I think you are worrying too much. If dh is happy to return to his Catholicism and you are both happy for the children to be brought up in it then go for it. I've met plenty of people who consider themselves Catholics but who are pretty lax about going to church every Sunday, and who don't necessarily agree with every word that comes out of the Vatican. I would try to find out a bit about the school's ethos first though and make sure you really are happy with it.