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Original poster

Music bods - question about dd

27 replies

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 07:49

My dd is 8.

she is grade 3 recorder
grade 2 piano
grade 1 clarinet (after 6 months of learning)
She plays in a percussion group which she loves

She has been told that if she took up percussion seriously she may well get a specialist place, however, it would mean having to give up either piano.

Dh thinks she should not give up piano
She loves clarinet and percussion but would prefer not to play piano.

dh thinks that piano will be really useful for her and that she can take up percussion later - but when? How long should she carry on piano?

She has already given up recorder lessons but plays in a recorder group

OP posts:

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 08:35

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aDad · 24/04/2008 08:40

a subjective opinion from no music expert, other than I played the piano and the recorder at her age, I wouldn't force her to play the piano if she would prefer not to.

Let her do the one that she loves, as she's more likely to put in the practice, improve quicker and get more out of it.

I don't see why you would make her keep going on the piano if she would prefer not to play it? It should be about enjoyment not duty.

snorkle · 24/04/2008 08:46

Not an expert, but have a fairly musical child. I'd have thought that if she's looking for a place at a specialist music school that piano would be almost obligatory and would certainly help her application. All the music scholars at dcs independent school have to learn piano. It really helps with music theory to have keyboard skills and most musicians afaik play piano to grade 5 or 6 standard at least. Is it finances or time that stops her doing all 3? I know 3 is a lot, but it does sound as though she's very musical and might be best adviced to stick with all of them if she enjoys it and can manage. (I'd gently ease out of recorder group too to free up some extra time).

Beetroot may give better advice - her ds has a specialist music place for percussion.

seeker · 24/04/2008 08:51

If you mean a state secondary school with a music specialism, my dd was offered a place at one last year with grade 4 clarinet and lots of singing (but no grades) and no piano at all.

Don't know about private schools - but I'm sure someone will.

AMumInScotland · 24/04/2008 08:57

If you're looking for a place at a specialist music school, then they would be the best people to advise on what combination of instruments they would prefer. I second snorkle's view that most serious musicians have studied piano - it's considered a very useful tool even if you don't want to play it in a serious way, so she would almost certainly have to start it if she went to music school anyway.

snorkle · 24/04/2008 08:59

And I think that serious percussionists need piano, so they can play the glockenspiels and keyboardy type percussion things well. I imagine it would help with rhythms too with all the 2 against 3 type stuff they do later. So I really tend to think your dh is right. But if she doesn't enjoy piano then do think before pushing her to continue - when I read your OP I though she enjoyed it but it was the one she'd prefer to give up, but I may have misinterpreted that?

mistlethrush · 24/04/2008 09:07

If you think that music may be 'her thing' and she may have a serious future in it, piano is a good thing to have. I started piano at 6, violin at 10. I got to grade 4 violin in 1yr at which stage the violin rapidly overtook the piano - it felt so much easier, logical, nice to do etc. However, I went on to do a music degree - I was so glad that I had continued with piano as it was really important for that - but earlier on was really useful for playing through compositions and music excercises for accademic music work...

Piano is great becuase you learn to read 2 clefs (bass and treble) and use your hands and feet in a coordinated way.

But make sure that piano isn't too much of a chore if you do encourage her to keep it up - perhaps get some more interesting music and don't concentrate all the time on exams and scales etc.

Judy1234 · 24/04/2008 09:10

If you mean a proper specialist music school like Chetams or the Purcell school then you would usually be doing at least 3 instruments and certainly keep up piano. If you mean one of these supposed specialist music colleges, the Government's fake things which do worse music than even many grammar and private academic schools then you may need to play by their rules I suppose.

In general you would expect children to start on the piano and later do percussion. My son passed grade 8 drum kit for example but also grade 8 trumpet and grade 7 piano, grade 8 singing etc. And he did the percussion - drums - as he was older not at 8. At 8 you need to consolidate on the other instruments, may be start a bit of music theory etc.

At private schools (not music ones Chethams etc) if you wanta music scholarship at 11+ you would usually expect two instruments at least hopefully at about grade 5 or higher and if it's an instrument that director of music is short of so much the better. Pity my blonde wonderful tiny treble with his grade 8 singing lost his voice within 6 months of getting his music scholarship but I am sure their shortage of very good trebles helped him get it.

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 09:37

She does not hate piano, she is not keen on her teacher though.

she does not do recorder lessons but loves the consort which is at lunch times.

I forgot that she also sings!

She also says she wants to take up sax when she is 10!

So what I am hearing is that she should be encouraged ot keep up the piano for now.

She is only 8!

The schools we are thinking about are private specialist music schools.

Can I make it clear that she drives this music thing btw!

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harpsichordcarrier · 24/04/2008 09:39

yes, don't give up the piano if she likes it.
piano vv useful for anyone wanting a career in music tbh.
while she is cearly enthusiastic I would watch out for burn out I am sure you will.
do you play? can you play together?

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 09:45

I don't play sadly

she plays alot at school in different things and is in an environment that really encourages music.

yes I am aware of burn out - although it seems that she is in a sweety shop at present loving every minute of it

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harpsichordcarrier · 24/04/2008 09:52

that is wonderful pippa

snorkle · 24/04/2008 10:11

Piano also gets more enjoyable as you get better! Do try and talk to Beetroot about fitting it all in though (don't think she's about this morning, or I'm sure she'd have been here) - her children are all multi-instrumentalists and 3 out of 4 sing too (choresters). If your dd can keep up all 3 instruments without burning out and really enjoys it then that's the way to go imo.

She sounds very talented to me - I hope you can make the right decision.

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 10:17

thank yo so much for your advice. I really appreciate it and wlil look out for Beetroot

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tortoiseSHELL · 24/04/2008 10:20

Definitely keep going with the piano - it is vital really if she might want to do music to a much higher level - for example my course at uni involved keyboard harmony skills - impossible without piano. If she might want to teach an instrument later on it will be useful for her to have piano to accompany pupils etc. If she wants to teach in a school then piano again would be essential.

If she doesn't like the teacher then change teacher! But yes, it is important to have enough time to practise each instrument!

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 13:51

oh dear - have just had a message form the percussion teacher offering her free lesson for the whole of the summer term as:

'She is potentially a stunning and completely natural player'

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snorkle · 24/04/2008 14:03

Brilliant!

Can she therefore do all three at least for the summer?

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 14:05

I guess so

oh dear - we may have a fight on our hands

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Littlefish · 24/04/2008 14:12

As a child I sang and played the piano. I always hated playing the piano and fought constantly to give it up. I sang in numerous choirs, groups, opera groups etc. and was really hard pressed to find the time to continue with piano.

However, when I was auditionning for music college in London, they made it clear that they expected me to continue with piano.

Almost all the musicians were able to play the piano. If nothing else, it means that your daughter will always be able to earn a living teaching and accompanying her pupils. I also believe that it's a good to play piano as it encourages an understanding of harmony, in addition to first instruments ike singing and clarinet which generally focus on melody.

In other words, much as I hate to say it and prove my father right.... I think she should continue with the piano.

Bramshott · 24/04/2008 14:15

Does she really need to give up one of the others if she takes up the percussion lessons? Is there a direct clash or is it that you / her teacher feel she'll be taking on too much? If she's keen and music is her 'thing', why not let her keep going with all of it for now and see how it goes?

Original poster

PIPPATHEHORSE · 24/04/2008 14:21

why worry is that she will not have time to practice them all

She practices in school at present which is good and has another major commitment that takes up alot of time.

However, I guess if she want to do it then she will have to put in the time after school.

Difficult regarding the piano teahcer btw - she is a good teacher but moody and dd struggles with this.

You are all being really helpful with this, thank you.

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seeker · 24/04/2008 14:32

She will have to be pretty committed to music to practice 3 instruments properly. My dd struggles with clarinet and singing - and you can practice singing in the bath!

Littlefish · 24/04/2008 14:33

Is there another piano teacher she could go to? I sympathise with your daughter if there is a clash of personalities. I had this with one of my childhood piano teachers. He was an excellent teacher, but we just didn't get on. I changed teachers and really started to enjoy it again.

Judy1234 · 25/04/2008 08:47

If they like music doing a number of things doesn't matter. Our older children did piano, another instrument and singing exams (and theory) and at times when you had an exam coming up the instrument for that exam took precedence etc so sometimes you were doing more on one thing than the other. Then over time they can concentrate on the 2 or three they like.

The piano is one of the most useful things she can do. My ex husband is a musi cteacher. We saw over 20 years scores of brilliant young musicians, all really talented leaving music career to make a career. Many ended up disillusioned teaching uninterested children in schools (not all but a lot) and whether they could play the piano or not often made a different to whether they got jobs as someone mentioned above because you are then so very useful. Even as an adult if you can sit down and play with a group of friends or whatever or carol singing at home it is such a useful skill to have.

What age might she go to a music school? A lot of them board which is another issue and I don't think boarding is really that good for young children.

Original poster

pippathehorse · 25/04/2008 10:11

She would not board

we live locally to one of the top schools who have already said she would get a place if she carries on like this.

She is staying with piano
she will do percussion this term and see what happens

Wonderful imput thank you

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