South London independent senior schools/St. Olave's?

[teepeetooloo]

Unfortunately my DS didn't make it through to the second round of St. Olave's entrance exams for which the top 450 candidates are chosen, he narrowly missed out. I realise the school is hugely oversubscribed with around 1600 boys taking the entrance exam for only 124 places.
Does anyone have experience of missing out on St. Olave's and gaining entry to a top South London independent school? We're currently considering Trinity and Eltham with Colfe's as a back up. How competitive are these schools in comparison with St. Olave's and does he stand a chance?

Did he pass Bexley? Usually if you comfortably pass Bexley you are good enough for Eltham and Trinity. With VAT, private schools may get less competitive anyway.
How much prep did you do? If you did loads I would question what type of school is going to be best for your child. I wouldn’t go anywhere too competitive that culls at GCSE and demands top grades. Colfe’s used to be more gentle than the other two, but things change quickly so ask around. Aim for a school where your child will be comfortably upper average at least to foster confidence.

St Olave’s is massively competitive now and there were people from other parts of the country this year so don’t worry about that aspect one bit.

@teepeetooloo , to give you another example it's easier to get into Hampton School in SW London than Tiffin Boys (straight offer not WL). With the upcoming VAT on fees this is going to be a particularly harsh year for grammar school competition (as birth rate is still high) and perhaps less competition for any private school.

It seems like Hampton delivers better GCSE and A-level results, as well as stronger university destinations. Given the less competitive intake, it indeed looks like there is some added value.

@Zippief , Tiffin Boys by Sept of year 7 will have taken a percentage from the WL and the 6th form is mixed with an intake of girls.

I think Hampton would also take from WL too? Also 6th form with girls intake should have extra boost on the results?

DS went to St O and is now 20 - and over the years it has been apparent how much more competitive it got every year. (When he sat the test, it was just one round of exams!)

As others have said, it’s so competitive pls don’t see it as necessarily a reflection of his abilities.

With the proposed addition of VAT on private school fees starting in January, there will be even more parents going after grammar school places - and the independent schools may well be adjusting their entry requirements as applications fall.

Anecdotally (and this is about 5 years), a couple of friends has their children apply for the grammars. They did not progress to 2nd stage of st Olave’s or Sutton test (Wallington and Wilson’s). One boy went to st dunstans, another boy went to Trinity, and a girl did not get into NW and went to St Dunstans.

They are still very competitive schools to get into of course, just not quite as crazy selective as some of the grammars seem to be now.

no direct experience with St Olaves (as mine are girls( but just wanted to say it doesn’t mean they won’t get in 11+ independent as grammar is ultra competitive. My friends DD didn’t get into Newstead but did get offer from City of London girls and Jags last year

Yes definitely there will be a lot more competition now and going forward with the proposed introduction of VAT to private which limits choice for everyone, really silly government policy which isn’t going to raise any money as many are switching to state which will cost us taxpayers money (previously they subsidised us by paying tax but not using the state service).

Sad reality that things will get harder for people in the state sector (obviously the real ultra wealthy won’t care and will relish in the decreased competition for independent school). Good luck!

@Araminta1003 Bexley comfortably means, would it have to be top 180 ?

@BeJollyNewt - no, not top 180, that is superselective. Most of the kids who achieve top 180 in Bexley, will also get Bromley superselective schools or out of county Kent offers or Sutton or North London superselectives.

By comfortable pass, I meant like at least a few marks above the Bexley pass rate type thing.
It is generally acknowledged that a child who passes the Kent and Bexley test so is a grammar school candidate will also get into these types of private schools. The test format is very different but the expected cognitive ability is similar.

There are only a handful of private schools that are superselective like St Olave’s or Queen Ellizabeth Barnet or Wilson’s. For example, Westminster School or St Paul’s boys or girls school are superselective independents.

Thank you for this info it's helped me feel slightly less stressed. We don't currently live in the area so my DS hasn't taken the Bexley test and we can't apply for state schools, this means our whole move is resting on whether my son gains entry to one of the above independent schools.
DS has a CAT4 score of 126, I'd be interested to know what sorts of scores a Trinity/Eltham child would have been expected to achieve in Y6.

Just to say that I know several children who narrowly missed out for Grammar and got a place in a top indie (i.e., City, Highgate, SHHS). This is for a number of reasons. First, exams and preparation are very different (paper-based v computer based, interview v no-interview etc). Second, the 2-3 months between grammar and indie exams make a huge difference, as kids mature and focus, having gained the experience of the grammar exam. Third, many grammar school candidates would have been practicing/tutored since a very young age, just for that one school (with indies, you target several schools, each of which has a slightly different exam).

126 is a very good score at this stage and it will improve until exam time (CAT scores can go up as kids mature/focus). I would say you are well placed.

@teepeetooloo , 126 is a good score.
If you are only moving house for Trinity / Eltham are you sure you don't want to look at private schools near you currently to save money. It's hard to explain how harsh the VAT on fees is going to hit the private sector, private schooling is going to become the option for the very rich only starting from Sept 25 onwards.
There is a Facebook group called Education not taxation which is leading the parent voice against vat on fees, it's worth seeing what you are getting into.

Do you mean 'can't apply for state schools' in that e.g. your immigration status doesn't allow this?

Grammar schools are state schools...

For Bexley grammar schools, unless you score in the top 180 out of over 6000 entrants, the system is then catchment based. Scoring top 180 on the day is very difficult. It’s harder arguable then coming in the top 127 boys who actually end up putting St olaves first on their form out of 1600 boys who sat stage 1.

Yes CAT score 126 is excellent. It’s inbetween stanine 8/9 and selective independents like Eltham and Trinity will be aiming for candidates with CATs of 120 or above on average. Plenty of kids have spiky profiles, like either numeracy heavy vs literacy heavy. Independents can work with that. A levels arguably are specialist so the top in one area vs not in an other actually works out quite well long term.

St Dunstans is another South London independent often considered in the mix of the ones you mention.

@MarchingFrogs

I mean we can't apply for typical state schools because we live out of the area so don't have a local address to put on a state school application! With St. Olave's you don't need to live locally to apply.

You can name any state school in England on the CAF submitted through whichever LA you live in in England. Your application for any school will be ranked according to the school's oversubscription criteria. Even if it's a school with no higher criterion your DC could be admitted under (such as church attendance), they only qualify under 'other applicants, ranked by distance' and at your current distance you don't have a cat in hell's chance of an offer from any of them, you will be on the waiting list and will move up it as soon as you have a local address.

@teepeetooloo - did you not do Sutton grammars either then?