Is it worth a visit to a Steiner School?

[milliec]

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If you've got time on your hands and are curious, why not ?

Some people like test driving cars they have no intention of buying, others view showhomes on new housing developements.

Each to their own.

find out when the open tours are at your nearest one and go and ask some pertinent questions!

I went on a tour of our local Steiner a couple of years ago. It was interesting. Definitely put me off big time (very batty woman led the tour), but I know some of the other parents on the tour did end up sending their kids there, so obviously had some appeal.

It's always worth a look. I went for a visit to one some years back when I was looking to move DS1. I practically ran out screaming, as did a couple of other people, but they then told me that they were on their way to look around another alternative school and invited me to go with them, and I ended up sending both my boys to the other school!

For what it's worth I have a lot of time for some of the Steiner philosophy - it just often seems to get lost in translation

The open days and things are quite good. there's always lovely food for one thing, but the "crafts" are very "Steiner"- tissue paper steiner stars and teasle hedge hogs, lots of felt and gnomes.

Ask about anthroposophy, why is it so important if they don't teach it.
Ask about
spirit worlds
reincarnation
clairvoyance
angels
atlantis
eurythmy
astral,cosmic and etheric forces
and GNOMES

That'll fox them!

Before we knew about the spirit incarnating stuff, we always had a "funny" feeling we couldn't quite pinpoint.
The kids all stared, a piercing midwich cuckoo stare (and we don't look that different, honest).
Also, everything is very"worthy2 and serious, not much laughter. It's not spritual

Also, you'll be struck by the beauty of the school probably, if that sort of thing is your bag.
Lots of wood, pastel colours, artwork, (which is all identical, but makes a general pleasing asthetic inteiror wise)
Floaty silks, covering the fire exit signs( the kids aren't meant to be introduced to letter forms young, so the words FIRE EXIT aren't spiritual, and if you burn it's karmic anyway.)
The well kept calm beauty is very seductive if you're used to a leaking portacabin with bluetacked photocopies of superted on the wall.
The parents are expected to clean and garden, it's part of the deal, so it's usually fresh and clean.

Sunnydelight - I am always on the look out for an 'alternetive' school for DS. Would you share where yours is and a bit about it ? (by email if you'd rather not here ).

can you elaborate on the gnomes please? The rest is sort of what I'd expect

Don't do it, its a cult!
Try googling humanscaleeducation instead, you will find progressive schools without being recruited into an occult sect.

SSSandy2
Steiner and his follwers believe gnomes goblins nature spirits etc are real.
There are gnomey gardens in the class rooms, and they are refered to alot.

Heerree'ss Rudi

""Gnomes are...unable to grasp how there can be anything but an ineffectual
relationship with [our] world." R. Steiner

Silly old gnomes not being able to grasp that eh?

"?There are beings that can be seen with clairvoyant vision at many spots in the depths of the earth especially places little touched by living growths, places, for instance, in a mine which have always been of a mineral nature. If you dig into the metallic or stony ground you find beings which manifest at first in remarkable fashion ? it is as if something were to scatter us. They seem able to crouch close together in vast numbers, and when the earth is laid open they appear to burst asunder...The enlightened man knows nothing of them. People, however, who have preserved a certain nature-sense, i.e. the old clairvoyant forces which everyone once possessed...could tell you all sorts of things about such beings. Many names have been given to them, such as goblins, gnomes and so forth...Their nature prompts them to play all sorts of tricks on man....? [Rudolf Steiner, NATURE SPIRITS, Lectures from 1908-1924 (Rudolf Steiner Press, 1995

Was it you Northern who said the steiner teacher and children have to ask permission from the gnomes before they enter the woods?

Well, my youngest came out with something about when they went for walks they talked to the gnomes and spirits about entering the meadow and the copse, yes.

And the teachers, and camphill parents, used to move the felt gnomes around the gnome gardens, and the kids really believed they moved themselves, even like 10 yr olds.
my children were gobsmacked.
I go by the Germaine Greer school of thought that it's wrong to lie to little children
But they did believe in their Christmas stockings until they were about 7/8 I think, my older two. Youngest, very sussed. Cynical. Amused. Believes nothing. There's a Steiner reject for you! grin]

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Steiner believed Lucifer as a bringer of light, (on the opposite pole to Ahriman, the force of darkness and materialism,) and is supposed to breathe into man the ability to aspire towards the spiritual realm. but Lucifer also represents pride and temptation I think, a kind of dazzlement.

Lucifer is a being of light who incarnated as a human being 3,000 years before Christ. Steiner says:

"It is revealed to the retrospective clairvoyant gaze that this was an actual human incarnation of the Luciferic Power. And this incarnation of Lucifer in humanity, which in a certain way has been achieved, was the origin of the widely extended ancient wisdom based on the Third Post-Atlantean civilization."

Rudolf Steiner The Ahrimanic Deception

Lucifer's polar opposite is a being called Ahriman, who will incarnate sometime in the third millenium A.D. (any time now). Steiner says:

"the Ahrimanic influence has been at work since the middle of the fifteenth century and will increase in strength until an actual incarnation of Ahriman takes place among Western humanity."

Some members of the Waldorf community believe that Ahriman is especially present in electronic media such as computers and the Internet.

BONKERS!!!!!!!

Milliec - To get a clearer picture of steiner I wouldn't bother with the recuitment open day, tis a sham, a very beautiful sham but you won't learn about what goes on beyond the fairy grotto and craft stalls. I would try and turn up one morning and ask if you can look around and observe a lesson. They will almost certainly say no spouting forth the notion that the teachers work is sacred nonsense.

Hi Milliec,

I would definitely go. It is worth looking at what they say they have to offer. You will see why so many people have been attracted to the candy cottage of Waldorf.

"Where does Lucifer come into the Steiner education."

I'll try to avoid Anthroposophical terms here as much as possible.

Lucifer and Ahriman are two spiritual beings that "influence" humans.

Lucifer influences us to think "I am an insignificant part of all that is - I'm one tiny drop in the ocean that is 'God'" - i.e. "God is external to me". With that "Luciferic" impulse (this is where most Waldorf teachers are stuck) you get people who have a sort of hive mentality (no reference to TheBee intended here )- people who cannot focus on or take responsibility for their own individuality. Think "Spiritualism".

Ahriman influences us to think "I AM GOD and GOD IS ME - I am the most important thing in the universe." - "God is internal to me". With the "Ahrimanic" impulse (this is where Anthroposophists would say critics of Waldorf are stuck) you have people who are individuals, who act on their own behalf and in their own interests. Think "Materialism".

Waldorf/Anthroposophy doesn't like the Ahrimanic impulse as much as they like the Luciferic impulse (Steiner warned they needed to be kept in balance with each other - and with the Christ impulse). They have declared war on Ahriman (who shows up in the form of individuality and, of course, technology). The "No TV" stuff came after Steiner (no TV's in Steiner's day) as part of this war on Ahriman. "No computers" was a natural extension of this. This "Waldorf" ideas have no basis in health or development for children - they are based in Walforf/Anthroposophy's battle with (imaginary) spirits. Kids, BTW, are often described among teachers as "Ahrmianic" or "Luciferic". Cool, huh?

Oh Help! I've been to look round our local Steiner twice now and loved it but now my head is buzzing with conspiracies and paranoia.. none of the teachers I met seemed sinister, I didn't like all of them but some were absolutely lovely and to me seemed perfectly straightforward and down to earth and I cannot believe they were masking some cultish secret- surely I'm not that bad a judge of character?? The kids were all fine, relaxed, messing about- normal!

Tingaling this thread was started back in April

Did you ever go & visit Milliec??

after what ive read on here i wouldnt touch them with a bargepole.

There are different Steiner schools and different systems that suit different kids. Dd1 moved from our local state school and has had a blast. She is interested and involved in what she learns, she loves the singing, the painting, the knitting, the early modern languages, the story-telling, the drama and the more religious aspects seem to pass her by.. We'd rather not bringtoo much school home and we enjoy normal levels of tv, computer games, plastic etc etc. This has never been a problem for her.

In contrast, however, it really isn't suiting ds1 -different teachers, different type of child and we're moving him to a state school in Sept. That doesn't take away from dd1's experience - jury's still out on what we'll do with dd2.

Having spent nearly 3 years in a Steiner School, I can completely understand where northern, barking and the rest are coming from (there certainly are some outrageous things said and believed in Steiner schools, but, at ours there is often room to disagree and even have the odd barney ) Despite the problems, IMO it does seem to really work for some kids. - and let's face it - KS1 really doesn't work for some kids.

I honestly believe that the only way to know whether a school is right for your child is to follow your instincts and to try. If it doesn't work out, you can always change your mind. Nothing is set in stone - no school will have all the answers.

Hope this helps.

Sorry bossybritches but I only just got on here! What is Milliec?
There was no mention of Anthroposophy although I did see a little poster for a meeting/talk about it in the reception bit it seemed aimed at adults.. have a brief idea of the philosophies and none of it seemed that outrageous, karma, reincarnation etc not what I believe but found in other respectable religions. Have also heard mutterings of racism in Steiner philosophy but I saw two teachers of Asian/african origin so I can't imagine that's a problem there.
I'm really scared off by the raging debate I have stumbled across on the internet and I can't really see who everyone is and what their motivations are so I'm not sure who to beleive?? What I've not found yet is any anecdotal evidence of situations in which the spiritual/pagan "rituals" (if they are that) have been harmful to children..
Just feel a bit suspicious now that the guide tour had a set schedule, it was written down which classes we would be observing..

Oh right, sorry,BB I get the Miliec thing now, duh

S'ok Tingaling - just wondered if she'd ever been. Don't THINK she'd ever really send her kids there but was interested in a report!

Maria 33- absolutely!! Just a shame not everyone has that choice, in some areas its the crap state school or home ed.

Maybe i should be grateful for what I've got (good school, rough area).. just hate seeing her stressed over homework aged 5 !!