Concerns at Nursery

[FlapjackStan]

My DD started a pre-school (just turned 3 in the summer).To give a little background: the pre-school is known to push children from the age of 3 to become independent (this has been confirmed by other parents whose which are now year above).

The teacher has had a few complaints about DD not following instructions or class routine (the first week). As well as not getting to the toilet in time or wetting herself without knowing. DD has been dry during the day and night and has had no accidents at home).
DD teacher has arranged a meeting next few weeks for possible senco referral due to not listening to instructions and wetting.

I’m completely at a loss as to what to do or what to ask in the meeting. DD is a very bright and lovely child. Sometimes she does not listen to instructions due to other things taking her interest. Apart from that no major concerns. Has anyone else had this issue?

I think the first thing I would be doing is looking for another Nursery.

That sounds appalling.

I mean, whereas I am generally impressed with settings being aware of children who are struggling and who seek to offer more support and early intervention, what Early Years Practitioner would be referring someone to a SENCo within a week of them starting ?

Where is the settling in period ?
Where is the allowance for the fact any child (or adult) can be completely overwhelmed starting a new place, but that is particularly true for a little one starting pre-school ?
Where is the differentiation ? There is a HUGE difference between a 3yr 1 month old and a 3 year 11 month old.
There is a big difference between a child being completely toilet trained in their own home with 1:1 attention from their parent, and a child in a new and busy environment who is part of a group (1:8 children, or potentially 1:13 if a qualified teacher).

Thank you @NewName24 . I have spoken with other parents same age as my dd and they had said similar to what you had stated. I was just so baffled not even a month in to school and I’m getting complaints almost everyday. Obviously if there are concerns then I wouldn’t mind the extra support. But dd keyworker has not given me any strong evidence that would indicate my child would need senco.

@NewName24 I have a meeting with dd’s teacher in the next few weeks. Are there any other questions I should be asking her teacher?
DD attends a selective pre-school. Maybe that’s why they are so strict on the poor kids.

DD attends a selective pre-school.

I have never come across a "selective pre-school".
As part of my job, I have been in over 100 Nurseries and other options for under 5s called all sorts of different things.

But I'm not sure I can offer any advice on a 'selective pre-school'. I mean, who is selected? On what criteria?
I suspect if this is a setting you have chosen to use because they want to treat them like 6 or 7 year olds when they are 3, then their answer is likely to be that that is what they do, and that is what you have chosen to take your child to.

It’s basically a private pre-school @NewName24. I chose the pre-school because it seemed like a lovely environment where kids can explore and learn new things. If I had known how regimented they were we would have looked elsewhere.

All the Nurseries I worked alongside were PVIs (Private, Voluntary, and Independent). Privately owned businesses, and also the pre-school and day care departments in some Private schools. But they would take anyone who applied and paid (space allowing). I'm still not sure how they 'select' 2 and 3 year olds, and on what criteria.

But it’s not selective?

DD attends a selective pre-school

Fromm the post at 18:49

Is this a 3+ nursery year attached to a private pre-prep/prep? You mention talking to parents from the year above.

Yes.

So what was involved in getting her into this 'selective pre-school'. Were there assessments to see how academic she is?

My (admittedly limited) understanding of nursery classes like that is that they’re essentially like starting reception a year early. Plus she's young for the year, so it’s not surprising she’s having some trouble. “Not listening to instructions” seems very vague, so hopefully you can get some clarification from the school on that. But the wetting issue (which is difficult for the school - and your daughter - if it’s frequent) should hopefully have improved since the first few weeks.

I work in a preschool. Firstly, there are many reasons a child might need extra support so it doesn't necessarily mean there is a long term SEN issue. I'm not in UK so can't comment on the system but where I work if a child is documented to need extra help, an extra staff member is funded. If for example 4 children out of 20 need help toileting that means 1 adult is supervising 19 children alone for a few minutes at a time, up to 10 minutes if a child news to be stripped and changed. The knock on effect is some activities will be cancelled like painting for example, we had this issue last year and it was really unsatisfactory and unfair on other kids. If the SEN paperwork is there, they get the staff. However they shouldn't be using your DD as an excuse to get the paperwork through, if that makes any sense? So I'd really be questioning the motivation behind it.

Honestly I'm quite surprised they are raising this so early, it seems very premature to me. Some kids take a long time to settle, some don't. I wouldn't make any assumptions about anything until the October mid term break. Children can turn 360 during the first month, especially if they have come from a home environment and have never had to wait their turn to use the toilet or speak in a group.

Just go to the meeting with an open mind and hear what they have to say. If it's negative try not to take it personally and see it as an attempt to help your child. Remember children can behave very differently in school and there might be something noted among a room of 3 yr olds that you could never have picked up on.

Let us know how it goes.

I imagine the toilet training is to put a plan in place to help your child get it right - accidents are expected at this age and some children need extra support. That won’t necessarily mean that she will be a SN child for life.

As for not following instructions, that needs nipping in the bud right away so of course they are right to flag it up.

When you say she is toilet trained and had no issue at home, is she able to take herself to the toilet, wipe herself clean and wash her hands all without either prompting or having an adult present? That’s likely what the school expects of her.
Selective pre prep schools generally only have very socially advanced and intelligent children on their books - thats why they're selective.

Pre preps usually select children by inviting them to spend a morning or afternoon in the classroom and then observing them. They select the children who play nicely with each other, who talk in clear sentences and who are good at following instructions. Tbh a child who stuggles to follow instructions consistently is likely to struggle in an environment like this. Maybe time to look at a few other schools. If you do give notice you will likely be liable for next term fees though.

When DD started nursery at 3, I think she wet herself every day for several months. We learned to send in more than one set of spare clothes (though the nursery always changed her into something clean and dry even if she'd run through her spares). No-one suggested she had special needs. Incidentally, she wasn't great at following instructions either, but that improved.

She's done well at school, with no additional needs suggested. But her nursery wasn't selective - at that point she'd never have passed an assessment, despite now being in the top 10% academically.

Thank you everyone for your replies. DD’s teacher was even criticising how she would eat her yoghurt and would create some mess. But at home we were fine with her spoon feeding herself. I will update once I meet with the school. I’m not sure whether her teacher is coping well with having kids back after the summer holidays.. so we shall see😅

So she had to sit some kind of assessment's together in and if they'd realised she wasn't "perfect" she wouldn't have got in? How set are you on her attending this school going forward? I don't think anywhere actively selecting at 3 is going to be a nurturing environment. If mine had had a toileting accident at 3, I'd have got a bag of wet clothes at home time and an "oh dear, it happens". A little chat about how they could help if it continued. Not a SENCO referral