VAT on school fees - High Court Challenge.

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Labour’s plan to impose VAT on private school fees in January faces a High Court legal challenge over claims it breaches human rights law.

Lawyers have written to HM Treasury arguing the policy discriminates against special needs children and has threatened court action if it is not dropped.

Showtime…

@FloralGums
"The 4A* were probably elevated grades due to the fact they had been to a private school. If they had been through the entirety of the state school system they would likely have not got the same grades - be honest with yourself. You cannot directly compare results from state and private schools."

You could not be more wrong. You can certainly compare them, and there is ample evidence that private schools add little or nothing to attainment - on average.

See for example:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-018-0019-8

Surely they had a choice at an earlier point in there life to make better provision for there retirement.......

I hope the challenge succeeds. it is against EU law to impose VAT on school feeds. Even about 20 years ago I think it was Lord Pannick who produced an opinion that it breached human rights law. Labour cannot have it both ways - ardently support ECHR and HRA 1998 and then not like it when it applies to protect children's education. Education has always been charitable in English law since at least about 1400. Let us see how neutral and non political the courts can be over this and possibly could be a case to leapfrog from High Court to Supreme Court to save time.

😁 nope

There are many much more dubious charities, educational and religious institutions who have such relief. I'm sure within 10 mins we could find 5 which are supported by such relief and actively work to erode our wellbeing and values.

Hi,
I'm looking for a good school for sixth form. We live in SW18, a 45min commute is acceptable, but the school should have good pastoral care, a strong support system for students who are not high achievers, and staff who actually care for their students. Any help or recommendations would be highly appreciated!

How lovely of you, you sound delightful!

And go...

I'm sorry, but to my mind, you'd be hard-pushed to call Eton charitable, but it is a charity...

It was never very likely the policy would survive the OBR, high court and ECHR as it’s financially illiterate, targeted and let’s be honest taxing education is embarrassingly backwards and self destructive. I think worried parents and teachers can relax. I do think what is worrying and nobody should be relaxed about, is spite policies and divisive rhetoric aimed at disrupting the lives of groups (or their children) who have been deemed to have not voted/are against for the current Government. It might just be old people and posh 6 year olds now, but you never know if you (or your children) will make the naughty list in the future.

In your opinion, would you say more or less delightful than Government promoted misopedia?

Well that's very empathetic and caring of you. The spirit of Margaret Thatcher is live & kicking in you. I just hope if you ever need anything from the State that you are faced with an equally uncaring, unhelpful response. Meanwhile poor pensioners just above the pension credit level can consider themselves to be the 'feckless, undeserving poor' based on your attitude. Come to think of it-are you Jacob Rees-Mogg in disguise?? 🤮

@Quodraceratops

"If there is a rise Starmer will be in big trouble politically."

Except it will be spun as something to do with a particularly virulent flu or Covid strain that year or something else and had absolutely nothing to do with pensioners being unable to heat their homes.

Dan Neidle is leading tax lawyer. His thread on X/Twitter is pretty emphatic that the case won't make it. This is the first page.

HairyAl · Today 19:49
Serious question, do people think private schools should have charitable status - do they do enough to deserve that status?

Why did you ask that question and then answer it yourself?
It’s not a serious question, you were just hoping for a bunfight.

When it comes to pensioners, there arguments don't hold water " I've paid all my life" the amount paid in Vs there expectations don't hold water. Based on the split of tax it works out that the average earner would have paid enough in tax for 3-4k pension.

I believe that removing pension credit was ill planned, making it taxable at the marginal rate would have left the poorer pensioners with the money and withdrawn it at 20/40/45% from better off pensioners. If there is a belief that pensioners have excessively generous tax position then adjusting there personal allowance or banding down would have had the same effect in a more progressive and proportional way.

When it comes to your other point: when I needed help from the state in 2018 onwards it was/is unhelpful and uncaring. HMRC was very keen on chasing corporation tax and vat bills despite me being in hospital then at home with a brain and spine injury. Threatening letters is not what your family needs when there loved one has a life changing injury.

The medical/rehabilitation support offered was more like a tick box exercise or a holding pattern rather than a route to recovery. I ended up arranging this privately with help from family and friends.

The unemployment, disability benefits were/are a joke. What do you do with £72/week in unemployment benefits. Getting PIP was a nightmare I had it for a while but honestly reported back at different stages of my recovery. They cancel it and then you are waiting for a reassessment for months. The assessment by Capita was seemingly bias and bizarre to the point of being dangerous. I gave up trying to claim as it was a far better use of time and energy to focus on whatever recovery I could achieve and build a new business (as a hemiplegic with a visually and speech impairment, is not your ideal candidate for many roles), than invest energy into the "welfare" system.

So the states message to me has been two fingers.

If government doesn't like the statistics it doesn't publish them. Try to find statistics for influenza deaths for 2021 onwards.....

Just as through COVID no context was provided, "400 people died today". But without over the last 5 years 2200 died on this day. There age breakdown and causes... This is how it compares.

You make a good point that the government should have to report on let's say 10 metrics which would assess the effectiveness of there policy for the following 10 years.

I personally have no experience of Eton itself or any charitable work by them. However I live in a town which hosts a private school, and there is an effort to make the facilities available to the community. For example the local sports centre was redeveloped without any racket sports facilities, the school stepped in and opened there facilities for the public and have filled this gap for 15 years, they also host a number of other sports where there are no other options locally.

If we compare this to another local charity "jesus centres trust" which was found to sexually, physically and psychologically abuse young people.

Or Oxfam which was found to be running a sex for food operations using public funds....

www.isc.co.uk/sector-info/state-and-independent-school-partnerships/

I don't - there, answered.

Curious what other people think.

Private schools do some charitable work, but not enough that they should have charitable status to my mind.

You’re familiar with the concept of precedent I assume?

That's some level of charitable work, but not enough, in my mind, to have charitable status - they'd need to have 50% bursaries, etc.

Oxfam did many things wrong in that case (mismanagement, not reporting, etc), but it wasn't that the organisation itself was running the program you describe.

Thanks to everyone who has posted on this subject - given that we are hurtling towards a close on this thread, I have a general question to all those who would seek to defend the imposition of VAT.

Please can you provide a detailed analysis of Labour’s projected economic benefit to the exchequer.

Many of you are vague on this level of detail - presumably because you simply don’t know, or because it doesn’t align with your broader ideological narrative.

It appears to me that the VAT debate is getting, perhaps conveniently, mixed with the difficulties of finding suitable schooling for SEN children. If proven that the government cannot provide a fitting education and environment for them, then a system whereby only them do not pay VAT could be brought in. However, why should all families who chose to invest in private education benefit from VAT exemption? It baffles me how some people feel that it is so deeply unfair for this law to pass!

Please see my post above.

That may help clarify the matter.

Is it only pleasant words for the Labour gov?