VAT on school fees - High Court Challenge.

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Labour’s plan to impose VAT on private school fees in January faces a High Court legal challenge over claims it breaches human rights law.

Lawyers have written to HM Treasury arguing the policy discriminates against special needs children and has threatened court action if it is not dropped.

Showtime…

Good. Starmer and his minions deserve it. And this is just the beginning of their cuts to the most vulnerable. They are as bad as the bloody Tories. Less than 100 days in and the Unions are say Starmer & the Chancellor have got it wrong.

That was meant to say nuance.

Going for DC with SEN is just as low.

Hypothetical question would the people who are in favour of the policy of VAT on private school fees still support it if say after 4 years it turned out to be net negative on tax revenue.

Where the money raised from the tax was less than the additional cost of the tax for example if large numbers switched to state.schools.

Obviously no knows for sure right now as we have no idea how many pupils will or will not switch or more likely how many will not go at all in say Year 7 or Year 12 over the next few years. But if hypothetically this happened.

Serious question, do people think private schools should have charitable status - do they do enough to deserve that status?

Honestly, at this point I actually worry that Russian bot farms have infiltrated their thinking/political advisors, it is that bad the moves they are making. And we know the Russians are in an information war with us. And we suspect they played their part in Brexit too. This is why the judiciary absolutely need to play their part and the House of Lords too.

'Nunance'? Assume you mean nuance? And what nuance that I've missed did you have in mind exactly? Do tell. Starmer is less than 100 days in and despite his best efforts to buy them off even the Unions are saying he's got it wrong. He and his minions are no better than the bloody Tories. Worse in fact-at least most people knew they were heartless b'stards.

Even some at the IEA are in favour of this...https://iea.org.uk/in-defence-of-vat-on-private-school-fees/

Private schools do not, IMHO, do anywhere near enough to have charitable status.

@Thistlewoman - what I mean is that WFA is just as bad as VAT on DCs with SEN, forced their by a failure of the state. Go do some research on the matter and the barriers to access many parents with disabled DC face.

”The asset rich pensioner myth” is akin to the myth that all private school parents are wealthy with lots of cash to splash around.

Charitable status is irrelevant where VAT on school fees is concerned. The VAT position has nothing to do with charitable status. Around half of schools don’t have charitable status in any case.

The difference is-parents who chose to send their children to Private School (however they afford it) have a CHOICE. Poor pensioners do not have a choice-except some will have to chose between heating & eating thanks to Starmer.

@HairyAl

Ignoring the charitable status question or whether VAT should or should not be introduced, hypothetically would you still support the policy if it turned out to be net negative on tax revenue, ie it ends up costing more than it raised.

Many private school parents (especially SEN children) don’t feel they do have a choice. The state system has often dismally failed them, often at great expense to a child’s mental health. It shouldn’t be a question of whether pensioners or children should be the ones hit by tax penalties or benefit cuts. A civilised society should be doing everything they can to offer the best they can to pensioners and children.

Charitable status definitely benefits private schools financially, that is evident - tax relief, business rates relief. This is relevant here.

It is much less than half that do not have charitable status either.

That's a big if - most economists, including to the right (apart from ASI) don't think that would be the case, but were that to come true, it would need reassessing. Privatisation has cost us, as a country, massively, so needs to be reassessed.

I don't disagree with that-neither SEN kids NOR pensioners should be failed by the State-but subsidising private Schools is not the answer to changing the way SEN children are educated.

This sums up the opponents to the rescinding of the tax loophole quite well

• The 4A* were probably elevated grades due to the fact they had been to a private school. If they had been through the entirety of the state school system they would likely have not got the same grades - be honest with yourself. You cannot directly compare results from state and private schools.
• Many universities are looking for something more than an identikit private school academic student.

• It’s possible they did terrible at interviews or their CV isn’t doing them any favours.

Surely it’s a good thing that companies are specifically looking for candidates from the state sector and those from minority groups. You must be aware of the advantages diversity brings to companies. State school candidates have a different set of skills than those from private due to their life experiences. Sometimes this is what employers are looking for.

Why are you assuming that a 4A* private school candidate is the best fit for jobs/internships?

I sense a frustration that private school no longer buys you as many privileges as it once did. This is just levelling the playing field for state school pupils rather than disadvantaging private school pupils, although there is still a long way to go. Private school pupils still have an unfair advantage when it comes to places like Oxbridge, although it is less than it was.

@HairyAl

"That's a big if - most economists, including to the right (apart from ASI) don't think that would be the case, but were that to come true, it would need reassessing. Privatisation has cost us, as a country, massively, so needs to be reassessed."

Fair enough but working through the numbers myself, it would take a 15% reduction in pupils attending private schools for the tax to be net zero in tax revenue and anymore than that net negative.

In reality very few parents would make the switch if their children are already at private schools but more would make the decision not to send them in the first place at say Year 7 or Year 12, so it will take 4 or 5 years to see if this is or is. It the case.

It is much less than half that do not have charitable status either.

It isn’t. From the House of Commons Library written last year :

“In 2016 the Government said around half of independent schools in England, around 1,300, were registered as charities.' More recent responses to parliamentary questions have reconfirmed the percentage remains about the same”

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05222/SN05222.pdf

business rates relief.

The government are removing this relief from all private schools.

@Another76543
"The university said it was working on a new access plan that would take a wider range of factors into account.”

They also said "School background is not a factor in Cambridge degree success" long after they had irrefutable evidence to the contrary, (deceitfully citing research that predated their machinations).

So, they have no credibility.

https://www.cao.cam.ac.uk/admissions-research/school-background

Going back to the winter fuel allowance change - we will see very quickly if this has a major impact, as data is gathered and published yearly on hospital admissions and deaths due to hypothermia. If there is a rise Starmer will be in big trouble politically.

In France, a normally socialist nation, if you send your kids to private school they pay you(!!!) the cost of their state education to put towards it. Same in many other European countries. Same as Brexit - politics of envy at play…. You need look no further as to the lacking of state education in this Country - it absolutely needs to be better. Punishing others for being able to choose differently is not the best place to start….imho.

More recent responses to parliamentary questions have reconfirmed the percentage remains about the same. The 2023 Annual School Census by the Independent Schools Council (ISC) found that 70% (978 out of 1,395) of their member schools across the UK had charitable status.

They still have business rate relief (along with the others) at the moment, despite not being charitable to a definition most people would recognise...

The report specifically addresses this and says that not all schools are members of the ISC, which accounts for the difference. Parliament themselves accept that only around half have charitable status. The linked publication clearly states that.

despite not being charitable to a definition most people would recognise...

They have to meet the requirements of the Charity Commission.