How do you decide whether to bother with 11+

[Monvelo]

I live in a grammar-ish area. There are 3 grammar schools accessible by bus, 9-13 miles away. They are very competitive, 3-5 applicants per place. How do you decide whether to try or not? What were the signs you would look for? Our primary school doesn't advise on this.

I don't mind giving more info on my DC but I'm equally interested to know more generally what others would consider as signs a child could go for grammar.

Is your child bright?

We went for grammar schools as the children are +130 IQ and bilinguals (English not my first or second language). They were very bored in primary school.

How do you even know your child's IQ?!

Our children were tested by a child psychologist with WISC (IQ test) in primary school age.

Well I didn't know any of my childrens' IQ but some did go for the 11+. I have twin daughters and one of them has always been exceptionally bright and performs well in all things academic and we'd had the same feedback from teachers. She did the 11+ and passed with flying colours and is now thriving at her grammar. Her twin has always been on the more sporty and drama side of things and clearly stated she wanted to go the same school as all her friends and didn't want to try. It's still a great school, just like academic push and less extra curriculars. She heavily enjoys it. My 12 year old son wanted to try the 11+ even though he wasn't as bright as his sister but he did it and still passed and is enjoying his school a lot!! All 3 go to different schools now and all 3 are great.

I'd be prepared for lots of academic pressure at grammar schools by the way. They generally expect grades 7 to 9. At my other daughter's school, they are perfectly happy with just a pass. It can get quite overwhelming and stressful. For my 9 and 5 year old daughters, I am not too sure yet for the youngest, but for my 9 year old, we are deciding to not do the 11+ as she has anxiety and we are not sure she would cope with the pressure.

If you think your DC are bright enough to pass the exam, and if you think they would thrive in an academic environment then go for the 11+.

Ask your children. My DS is academically bright and really wanted to do the entrance test for grammar. I offered him tutoring for 1 hour a week to help him navigate the test but only an hour as I felt he needed to get in on what he had, otherwise you'll be tutoring them throughout and that's hard going on kids when teenage life and secondary is hard enough. He passed and is doing well.

My DD has some academic ability but her strengths lie in creative areas so she decided she didn't want go for grammar. She now goes to a great local comp and loves it.

Grammar does have higher expectations. My DS has just gone into Year 10 and they are doing their English GCSE this year and the expectation is a grade 7 or above. They have to want to rise to that challenge.

If your child is generally top of the class without external tutoring and is an avid reader or into playing sports/instruments then its worth looking into.

If your child needs heavy external tutoring to maintain a top position at primary then be prepared to potentially have to continue the tutoring through grammar school. Those children may struggle without extra help.

Grammar schools vary. Some really push for excellence some do not.

Ultimately your child can thrive at a grammar or non-grammar if they have the ability, parental input and the right influences around them.

If your children are regularly achieving exceeding expectations or whatever they’re calling it and they have a school they want to aim for, then go for it. If they are reluctant then definitely not.

I decided on trying for grammar because my DC could all read fluently between 3-4, are self driven, love to read newspapers, are really competitive, were always top of the class, love to seek a challenge and genuinely would have driven me mad if they had gone to the local school 5 minutes walk away that finishes at 3pm! The latter probably being the most important consideration.

They are little shits if not stimulated and challenged. They would have caused social drama if they were not. They go/went to superselective grammars. The pace is really fast and they set a lot of homework which mine always did very quickly. I really feel for the kids who have to work for hours to stay at that pace. I have friends who teach in highly selective environments (state and private) and they all say it is miserable for those who are excessively tutored in.

If in doubt, go get an educational psychologist assessment. We were always told by teachers that they are different academically speaking.
Doing the 11 plus now with the youngest. We never did much prep with the older ones.
They all also excelled at extra curricular, that was again something we had to do to keep them challenged.
I think you just know if you have a kid that is constantly seeking knowledge or somehow just above, it can be creatively, musically, extremely driven in sports, obsessions with maths, Shakespeare, whatever, at an earlier than expected age.

Child needs to be bordering on greater depth in maths and English at primary by beginning of Year 5, so that they are greater depth at beginning of Year 6 when 11+ is sat. They've also go to have the ambition and drive to want to go to a grammar where high expectations are the norm as they'll be expected to push themselves hard in order to get the GCSE pass grades between 7 and 9.

My DD is currently at "meeting expectations" for all subjects in her school report, which I would assume means where she should be and therefore not really a grammar school candidate. The confusing thing though is she's dyslexic and currently doesn't get any support for that from school. So with more support perhaps she'd be higher. I don't want to assume because she's dyslexic she couldn't get into grammar and do her a disservice. She loves school, she has an outstanding memory, very good comprehension, and she's got a huge strength in 3D design and construction that's currently not put to use. She can also be extremely determined. Being dyslexic, her spelling is crackers and her reading is stilted. My youngest seems to me to be naturally bright and is exceeding expectations in school reports but we don't need to think about him just yet. He's a big reader and obsessed with science and history.

My inkling is that my youngest might head towards grammar naturally and my eldest it might not be right. But I don't want to do them a disservice. The academy school where I live is pretty big 1700 pupils and got requires improvement Ofsted rating due to poor reading progress and sen provision. So not loving that option for DC1.

Has your DD got a formal diagnosis of dyslexia?

There are some things the school can do - have they said why they won't support adjustments?
https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/advice/educators/what-do-i-need-to-know/reasonable-adjustments

This is what access arrangements can be put in place for tests, incl 11+
https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/advice/educators/what-do-i-need-to-know/exam-access-arrangements#

I can honestly say, hand on heart, that if mine had not easily been greater depth across all academic subjects from early primary when it is introduced, I would have no way sent them to grammar school especially not a superselective one. It is the whole big fish in the pond thing.
@Monvelo - sometimes if the Ofsted highlights a particular area they actually make improvements in that area. I would also be concerned about the SEN. I think the reading with a dyslexic child - you just really have to keep at it as a parent. The more you put in the more the child will benefit. There is nothing that can compensate for loving 1:1 attention. Also advocate for scribe, IPad etc all the help you can possibly get and allow DC to learn by hearing via audio etc and coloured overlays as much as possible.

Our daughter went to grammar school. Would cry with frustration at the slow pace of lessons in primary school. Avid reader, enjoyed maths books, bought a times tables poster with her pocket money at infant school. Driven up the wall by time wasters in class (it's always the same two boys, mum). Loved doing tests and puzzles, asked for mental arithmetic questions on the walk to school, never stopped asking questions.
If your child is like this, try for grammar school.

Thank you @notsureicandoitagain yes she's got a formal dyslexia diagnosis and full report. Many of the things in her report don't apply to every day in primary school, such as exam adjustments and things that are more for senior school. Smaller things I am finding get forgotten but I do frequently remind, such as sitting straight on to the board and reducing copying demands. School say they have to target resources/support at those most in need. I think because she's bright, got a good memory, good comprehension, and follows the rules, she's not 'bad enough' to get the support they can give.

We live in a super selective area. In year 4 DD's teacher asked if the 11 plus was something we were considering. We hadn't at that point. We discussed it with DD and let her make the decision about whether to try. We made it clear that it could be a bit of a lottery as there is no pass mark; just the top scoring 112 girls got in. We visited the school and discussed the expectations that they would have. The choice was hers.

My daughter was behind in many subjects until she was around 12, due to be dyslexic. However as he got older she became very academic, and now studies medicine. I don’t think she would have got into a grammar ironically.

We didn't consider it in primary as DD was dyslexic, at one point was in the special maths programme (the next year diff teacher was amazed at that) - either way we had heard horror stories of self harm, poor SEN support and Dd was being bullied by the girls who had been tutored to pass it for years.

Then they (state primary) did the CATs and she scored in the top 5% of the country. We were both very 😳 and she asked if she could sit the 11+ just for her own sake (she was adamant she still didn't want to go). She passed which was wonderful for her confidence (and one in the eye for the bullies and their mums, one of whom had to get in on appeal). She is now at one of the top schools in the country and getting wonderful dyslexia support. It's expensive (private) but I'd not have put her in the grammar to be trampled again for the world. Her co fidence is sky high for the first time since she started education.

My friend’s daughter was doing well in primary school, and one of her teachers suggested she try for a super-selective grammar school, which has a very competitive admission ratio of 6-7 applicants for every spot. My friend tutored her daughter for two years, and she passed the 11-plus exam. However, in Year 9, she was diagnosed with dyslexia and began struggling with her GCSE studies. There was little support from the school, ultimately finding herself at the bottom of her class..

I have one in grammar, one not. The one who didn't pass now thinks she's not clever, it has really knocked her self confidence. If we didn't live in this area I'd have been quite happy with a good comprehensive. It will be interesting to see how they both do at GCSEs...

Both of my children passed the 11+.

My eldest was always bright but didn't always put it to good use! He was always top half at maths and English and didn't struggle to grasp concepts etc.

He has an hour tutoring every week in year 5 but did nothing outside of that. He did well in the 11+ and aced the non-verbal reasoning.

His teachers and our friends were surprised he passed but I wasn't.

DS2 is far more what you would consider typical grammar school material. Very competitive, always top of the class and always put in maximum effort, read lots.

They both got within one mark of each other but he did well on English and not so well on NVR.

I'm not sure what sports and music have to do with anything.

It depends on the school, but on our area kids who are naturally bright pass without being identified as 'exceptional'.

@RespiceFinemKarma what are the CATs you mention? I'm glad your daughter is doing so well now.

Is distance part of the criteria for the grammar schools in your area? Also, 9-13 miles may be the same distance everywhere but the time, traffic etc in different areas will have a massive impact.

In our borough we don't have superselectives. Distance is part of the criteria. DC1's school typically goes into around 5 miles but has gone to 9. DC2's school hasn't gone beyond 2 miles for many years.

We are about 1.8 miles from both the schools but different routes. DC1 can get to school by bus in 30 minutes as bus stops closer to our house and school and more main roads. DC2 takes 50minutes because bus stops are further away each side and the roads are chocka.

I asked both of mine and if they wanted to do it and if so would they be willing to put some work in for it during year 5. DC1 was keen and it was clearer that they might pass. DC2's attitude was there was nothing to lose and more options if they did get a pass.