VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

I didn’t say that I would quit, I said that I would reduce my hours which will massively reduce the tax that I pay. As for working 20% harder, I already work up to 15 hours per day. There is no more time in the day.

And why do you assume London day fees? My DC is not at a London school and neither are Twisty Izzy’s.

See, you're in a 'senior specialist role' that might 'allow you' to bunk off early to attend to your kids.

You possibly need to understand that the staff who actually do the work in the NHS are demanding more accountability from you 'bunk offs'.

Have you heard about child benefit? they will claim, pay back but get NI record for pension. A lot of SAHMs do it this way.

Edited to add - I think it's prudent to assume that women who earn sufficiently to fund PS for their kids are intelligent enough to have their affairs sorted

Fair enough, I run an educational business and we do things legally so do have to charge VAT. I'd support keeping VAT off private schools if it was also fair for activities accessed by less well off children.

I have a family member who put her child into school as a full time boarder last September. The mother then went back to work in sept after being a sahp for many years/primary school years. She also intended to study a postgrad to refresh her skills. But to absorb the VAT increase on fees - she is giving up her job and now doesn't intend to ever go back into the workforce. They will keep their daughter in private school but change to a flexi/day girl basis to absorb the fee increase ( ie its cheaper to be a day/flexi than full time boarder). But this change means that she needs to be about a bit more to do pick up and after school (otherwise they would need to pay for a nanny). She also regains her tax band (as a higher earner it was removed), doesn't carry commuting costs, has more time etc.. IT PAYS NOT TO WORK !

Have you thought of maybe taking in some ironing, selling some things on ebay/vinted? Perhaps buying more shop own brands in your weekly shop, also giving up takeaway coffee and subscription services can be a massive help 😉

Entirely valid.

Providing 'life-events' never cause you to wish you hadn't become, in our society, anything other than SAHM.

Is your home joint tenancy? Does his Will and pension provide for you?

Do your kids regard you as the drudge?

The fact your income, your job, was only ever 'to pay the fees', that you'll now ditch... suggests to me you haven't thought this through.

I already have near 7 figures in my own pension thanks to early and heavy contributions and am entitled to half of everything we have asset wise. I have no expectations that he will be shagging anyone, but if we needed to divorce for any reason I would be okay financially.

Also it doesn’t need to be all or nothing work wise - I left my secure full time role to go freelance on a hefty day rate. I only work a couple days a week and take school holidays off. If I really needed to I could find full time employment again - maybe not at the same rank / trajectory I had before leaving, but certainly enough to take care of myself.

Why do you think it’s appropriate to make such a comment? Do you think it makes you look clever?

We like to think. But they will. Especially someone whose entire reason for being there is 'what can I extract, financially, from this job?'.

Touchy lot aren't they 🤣🤣🤣

@Labraradabrador it sounds like you can accommodate the VAT rise.

I can see why you're pissed off about it but you're not helping your argument.

If you think it’s appropriate to make stupid jokes and use laughing emojis to someone who is having to remove their child from a school that they are happy and settled at then that says a lot about you.

Is this just bull shit then?

I can accommodate it, but many of my children’s classmates will not be so fortunate. I have serious concerns for the viability of our school if significant numbers depart, which renders my ability to afford vat moot.

one Of my children is confirmed send, and the other suspected send - they are not the sort to thrive anywhere, and early experiences in our local state schools were pretty disastrous. Your talk of the ‘greater social good’ doesn’t really address children like mine who fall slightly askew of what mainstream can offer, yet would never gain a place in the increasingly difficult to access specialist schools.

Plenty of kids have to move from schools that they are happy and settled at and for the most part I would sympathise with the child's predicament but after the endless threads off a very privileged minority as if their world has ended and the constant nonsense they spout like 3 year old having tantrums, if you make me pay vat I'm not going to work anymore in my high powered very very important job and the whole world will be sorry 🙄

Lol. Adam Smith institute……biased much!

very interesting read, thank you for sharing @Dibblydoodahdah

sorry for derailing - "Since 2009, the number of NHS FTE staff has increased by more than 30%". UK population has only increased 11% (62.2m in 2009, 69.1m in 2024) yet overall impression NHS deteriorated significantly. Food for thoughts

I’d say most, if not all, tutors are sole traders so not subject to VAT… so, yes, pretty much 0 VAT coming in from this.

There is no nonsense or tantrums from private school parents on this thread. Just the fact that they won’t be working as much or at all to cover the fees if they move their DC to state school. This clearly has an implication on how much (if anything) this policy will raise. The IFS report that Labour likes so quote believes that such parents will spend their spare cash on other VATable goods and services. However, it has zero evidence to prove that. I have long planned to reduce my hours dramatically once I stop paying private school fees. I’m now planning to bring that forward by a few years. I don’t know why that’s a tantrum or nonsense. My FIL decided to take early retirement at 50 when DH didn’t go to uni. Was that a tantrum?! No, just sensible life planning.

There was no need for you to make such a goady comment to Twisty Izzy. If you have a valid argument as to why you think this policy will raise funds, please share it.

What do you think other people do?

People who can't afford private but have SEN.

People who work full time and need child care?

People who have seen mortgages increase or rents soar?

They work it out, they don't have a choice.

School fees have risen 20% in real terms over the last 10 years anyway, how many parents pulled their children out due to that?

Those people working part time came increase their hours.

Those high rate tax payers who would otherwise be ploughing the fees into their pension could probably find an extra £300 a month somewhere.

Personally I wish people would take the passion, energy and commitment they are showing trying to not pay tax on their school fees and plough that into making education provision better for everyone.

Labour are banking on people finding the money.

If they don't we will all be better off with those parents, and children in the state sector with a vested interest in making those schools better.

Maybe when you give up your jobs you could volunteer as a school governor?

Food for thought indeed. Despite increase staff and increased investment (albeit lower than France/Germany et al), the NHS is on it's knees.

I suspect the answer to the conundrum is significantly older and sicker population (poor diets, sedentary lifestyles, obesity etc). And - no one wants to here this - the way 'free at the point of delivery' distorts behaviour of staff and patients/public

Sorry for the derail....

we will all be better off with those parents, and children in the state sector with a vested interest in making those schools better.

This same point being repeated over and over again so - are you saying that 93% of state school parents (including you I assume) are such rubbish that they can't make state schools better? are you also saying private school parents are superior to you?

articulating the impact of tax policy on individual economic decision making is not ‘having tantrums’. I work where I work and work the hours I work for a number of reasons, but a big part of that decision making process is ‘what does this job bring to me’. If the incentives shift, so will my behaviour.

as a child who moved schools regularly I have a good sense of the pros/cons. My parents were always able to weight the changes in terms of scheduling and their children’s individual needs. Unfortunately Labour have decided to implement mid year without any sort of rigorous analysis of the impact, and announced it right as summer holidays commenced and school personnel were ooo. Many parents are scrambling to assess impact and affordability, and are unable to get clear answers from state schools - it feels like the timing was designed to inflict maximum stress.

@nearlylovemyusername of course I'm not.

What I'm saying is that the more wealthy, privileged parents that are invested in the state system, the better that system will be for all children.

They will not be the only ones invested in their children's education obviously, but they will be adding to the number of people who are.

Rather than the standard argument that they care so much about their children's education they want to remove them from the system.