Are tables by ability in upper primary school?

[Schoolquestionnnn]

I didn’t think so, but another parent said they were…

It will depend on the school surely?

At DS’s school, the tables have been by ability since reception. They call them “the fast worker table” to explain why they are getting more work (working at greater depth) but the children are well aware of the phonics setting by ability, and have worked out that the “fast” table gets harder work than the other tables.

Children can change tables frequently throughout the day. They may start one place for the register, move to maths tables (which may vary for topic to topic), move for English and be different again in the afternoon for topic lessons (art, geography, history etc).
Each school is different and each class within each school is different.
Some children may be quick at fractions but slow at percentage and may be on different tables one week to the next.

Not usually in upper primary, mixed ability tables are just better, more ideas, more peer on peer teaching, better self worth for all children etc. I am the volunteer (with qualifications) who sometimes has a table in the classroom where children who need extra help come to, I just keep them on task, pep talk them, motivate them, praise them, give them pointers. Most of the time there isn't a spare table for them to gather round so I work my way round the tables. Some children who have SEND may be sat on the table nearest the front but there are other children on that table too. Classrooms are tight because everyone sits around a table rather than in rows.

Work is differentiated and so higher ability children are challenged and that is the name given to the questions. So in maths everyone has to complete say the first 5 questions and get their work marked to ensure they understand the concept before they can move on. Children do work at different speeds and most move onto the next set of questions and some children probably about 5 or 6 in class will have moved onto the final set of questions.

For marking the children put their finger in air for the first set of questions and a finger and thumb for the second set meaning we can prioritise the children still waiting for their first set to be marked.

There might be ability tables in year 6 when some children need more help. But my experience in the last 12 years has been mixed ability and some children move seats for maths or English or both.

What I can tell you is that learning is not linear, no one is going to ask what table you were on when applying for a job when they are 30. In all honesty a lot of it doesn't matter. What does matter is parental involvement, nailing times tables, spellings and reading, whether reading to them or them reading themselves but asking questions of them about their book for comprehension. Plus once primary is over there is no standing in the school playground with other parents. It is bliss.

Depends.

In many schools children will change tables regularly. They will have a table for maths, a table for English, art etc.

Some of these will be splits by ability and some will not,

Some schools split by ability. Others never do:

Usually grouped by ability for maths and english but other topics are often mixed ability.

You’d have to ask the teacher. I’ve seen class tables organised differently even within the same school.

Depends on the school, as ours was a 2 form entry, they actually mixed the classes up. So once in KS2 for maths and English there was a top and bottom set. They then did there topics in there regularly classes in the afternoon. I don't know if they just mixed the tables up though 🤔

My infant school child's tables are by ability. Not sure if the junior school follows the same principle.

There's no one answer - each school/class does it differently.

Mixed ability in ours, I believe. As some poster said, it boast a lot benefits for all. I think it's better this way.

It depends on the school and often on the teacher. A lot of the time it’s only for Maths and English. Generally speaking, it’s better for the highest and lowest ability students but doesn’t make much difference for those in between. Honestly, all that matters is that your child is working at the right level for them.

Not at my child's school. The higher ability children are largely ignored:left to teach the others, whilst the teachers focus on getting the lower achievers up to the expected standard where they can.

This unfortunately happens a lot with mixed ability tables. That’s why it’s better for high achievers to be on their own table with their own work so they’re not forced to teach their less able peers.

Sometimes there is an exception as being able to explain to someone else is a higher level than just being able to do it yourself so it broadens and solidifies the high achievers if they are able to demonstrate an ability to do that.

I second this. Even as adults, when I talk through my approach of handling things with my coworkers, it helps me methodologise what I have been doing subconsciously.

Also, they ask questions which often would provoke me developing new thoughts or seeing things in a different angle.

We always had tables by ability. I think so much better for the teacher to be able to cater to appropriate levels. So there'd be a bit at the front introducing a topic, then the work set on different tables would be appropriate to those children in terms of difficulty & quantity. Teacher could go round explaining different things.

Eg stand at the front and say "today we are going to write a story" & then going to one table reminding them about capital letters and asking them to make sure they use them properly, and then on to the next asking them all to use fronted adverbials or semicolons.

There are obviously big pros and cons to both ways of doing it and schools use a mix.

I wouldn't worry either way xx

Our school seems to shuffle the kids around a lot and actually acknowledged (unprompted) this year that they knew they weren't challenging my eldest in maths.

People will go on about "benefits" of peer to peer teaching & how explaining to others requires more understanding but if the child already has the deeper understanding to do that explaining, expending their learning time doing so to help other children isn't offering the higher ability child anything new to learn or be challenged with. It is not good for either child socially to be reminded that one is far more capable at the topic than the other. It can lead to the higher ability child being resented (this happened to me at school and has happened to DS too).

People will go on about "benefits" of peer to peer teaching & how explaining to others requires more understanding but if the child already has the deeper understanding to do that explaining, expending their learning time doing so to help other children isn't offering the higher ability child anything new to learn or be challenged with.

Not the same, but a friend's DC was a competent chess player (for an eight year old) and at the school's (optional) chess club, they weren't allowed to play only with others of similar level but asked to play also with complete beginners. As the child repeatedly ended up spending much of the time explaining how the pieces moved, which did not noticeably improve their own understanding of anything, the parents decided to stop sending the child to the club.

I agree with this! It is not the responsibility of the higher ability children to teach the lower ability ones. If they can do it well and explain it, then give them something more challenging to do!

Totally agree too. Do not like teachers using other students to ‘mentor’ their peers.

This’s always used to annoy me as a child.

there are definitely ability tables at my children’s school for maths and reading and they are very aware where they are. My eldest has normally been on top table for both but has at times moved herself down to the next table when she’s needed a bit more time to process certain concepts.

For phonics they were totally aware of where they were in the pecking order/who was on what colours in reception and infants but older one has seemed less bothered making comparisons as she’s got older and more variety of subjects/tasks compared to infants.

'Not at my child's school. The higher ability children are largely ignored:left to teach the others, whilst the teachers focus on getting the lower achievers up to the expected standard where they can'

This is my bugbear too, as a higher attaining child myself, then a teacher and now parent to a daughter who is also quite academic - especially in mixed ability groups where the lower attaining students' issues tie in with unmet needs/behavioural problems, as they often do, and the higher attaining child paired with them is effectively used as both academic support and a 'buffer zone' between the struggling child and the teacher.

In our two-form entry primary Year 6 are currently in sets for maths and English and taught together for everything else. Lower down the school there are table groups based on ability for the core subjects, but we have a new, right-on Head who's not keen on differentiating in this way, and is making noises about having no kind of ability-based grouping at all.