Tips please on how to "inspire" a child to "lazy" to do her homework properly

[Wills]

My dd1 is now 8 years old and in year 3. In her previous school she wasn't allowed to get away with anything less than her best and as such not only did well educationally but really loved the school. At this new juniors its obvious she's bored. Homework could easily become a massive battle ground and until now I've sort of run away from it in the hope that her teachers are keeping her going within class. Following her latest parents review its now become extremely obvious that her level of work as well as her love of various subjects has dropped. I've tried cajouling, tried inspiring, bribing etc but its getting nowhere. What next?

carrot and stick work for me, and a routine,. In from school, drink, snack, brief chat about day, then homework. Ensure there is a clear space for her to work in, and I find that sitting with my ds (12) reading, or just showing an interest helps.

No games, computers or reading breaks until the h/w is done, et voila. I wouldn't let him watch Dr Who for 4 days until his geography project was done last week.

ok, but she's doing the work but in such a terrible way. She's not putting any energy into it whatsoever. Things she used to take time over she just doesn't bother with. I can't physically bring it out of her???

Go to see school, ask if she's bored? It may be that she needs extension work. My ds is bored at school in some subjects, so I try and help him be extending the homework...how could we do this; what is going get a good grade for this; what do we know about this, how can we find out?

Also, you need to check that everything is OK at school...is there a non-academic problem somewhere? This could be her way of trying to get you to raise the issue with her iyswim.

I can see this is tricky, have been there myself with dd1. Does the homework look interesting to you? My dd is much more inspired by stimulating homework although since you do not set it there is not much you could do about that. I have to say we tend to use the old fashioned no t.v or playing until it is done properly. It is frustrating when you know it is half hearted and not their best effort!

I agree with scaryteacher there may be an underlying problem if her enthusiasm has curtailed in all areas not just at homework time. You need to check with her teacher.

Could it be the fact's she's 8? I was amused (and this isn't a dig at the OP!) how several of my fellow parents went to the parents evening a week or 2 ago for our DCs, Y4, moaning about how their child was 'bored' thus needed extending- nah, I know all these kids, esp the DSs: They'd call a free day in a Pokemon Computer Game Expo 'boring', because it's cool to do so.

I see it as a necessary part of growing up, that detachment from pleasing mummy and the teachers, and it's hell to watch your clever enough DS dash off just-good-enough homework when you KNOW he'd get so much more out of it by applying some effort BUT they're becoming their own people, and perhaps need to learn by their own mistakes, HOWEVER, I would agree it'd be helpful if the teachers were resourced enough to absolutely INSIST on a higher standard of work! That's why some go private: Their DCs are guided, watched and overseen far more closely which means they deliver better work - which is all well and good but for some DCs it prevents them from ever becoming self-disciplined and self-reliant as there's always someone there to take responsibility for enforcing learning.

And yes, some of the homework IS dull. But so's a lot of life!

I know there is a problem at the school and I'm happy to describe it but it would take ages. I also know that the homework side of things is one of the fall outs. I've been into the school loads but they are ignoring it. I want to change her to a different school but its not as easy to do that unless we somehow win the lottery and can pay for her to go private. So until I can find a space in a different school I'm having to deal with the current issues and I'd rather her school work didn't continue to drop so terribly. But I'm impressed scaryteacher that you've spotted it. Really impressed.

I think a strict routine when you give very little leeway at this stage, works wonders when they are older. At least it did with my ds, whereas we weren't so firm with dd, and she has very little self-discipline.

Or it could just be different kids

The school have a duty of care to your daughter, and that means pastorally as well as academically.

If there is a problem at the school, then it needs to be tackled. Approach the Head if necessary, or if the Head is part of the problem, then approach the LEA.

Could you elucidate a bit on the problem at all? There are several teachers on MN who can give you sound advice as we know how the systems work.

The important thing to me is that your dd keeps up with reading. I feed my ds books (huge Amazon bill) to alleviate any boredom at school, and I include non-fiction texts as well, as he likes factual things as well as fictional.

Hi Scaryteacher. Glad to know I'm not the only one up late. Hmm how to summarise the problem without creating an tome in its own right! The head is probably part of the problem. He's just taken over at the school and actually I like him BUT I don't think he has far bigger issues to deal with at the moment and, to put it bluntly, just needs me to go away. (does that make him part of the issue or not?). Ok so I'll try to give you a synopsis but I was never really known for being succinct . To start from the beginning (excluding her birth of course sorry!). Fundamentally dd1 doesn't seem to like change and does seem to like to know where she stands i.e. she seems like to have strict boundaries - not sure where that comes from as both dh and I would hate that sort of world etc. Anyway ... We moved to our current location just under 2 years ago. In moving over 100 miles we took dd1 away from where she'd always lived to a place where she knew no one, where there was no family, no friends, Daddy suddenly disappeared from her life because of a long commute and to top it all she gained a new baby brother. On the run up to the move she was a nightmare. However on moving and putting her into a new school (infants only) instead of taking months to settle the school seemed to be perfect for her and within weeks I had a very content happy child that was pure pleasure to be around. She was like that until the end of the summer hols last year when she started at a new Juniors. Unfortunately she didn't get into the juniors where most of her class went (the school had 60 places and over 130 applicants and we live 1.5 miles away from it in a densely populated area, so whilst she's on the waiting list she's absolutely no where near the top and not getting any closer). 2 of her close circle of friends however did move to the new juniors with her. The first 3 days were great and then its been tears, tantrums, pure anger ever since. I've had ever story under the sun come home as to why she's unhappy. It changes from the teacher, to friends, to being unhappy in maths to being unhappy in English, to being jealous of her brother and sister, to wanting to own a horse! I've been into the school 9 times now which I feel is seriously over the top. For the first few days after visiting things settle down but eventually they end up back to same as usual. She's far worse emotionally than when we were moving house which I feel points to something serious. The last two times I've seen the head. I actually like him, but he is incredibly good at making you feel that he's listening and going to do something and its only once you've left the meeting and had time to reflect upon what was said that you realise that he didn't actually agree to do anything. The last parents eve was a disaster. I persauded dh to take time off work (he's a contractor and therefore paid by the hour) but when we arrived we were met by a stand in because dd1's regular teacher was on a course. We were criticised because dd1 had only handed in 8 out 15 maths homeworks. But upon quizing it appeared that taking homework home was not over seen. The children are not encourage or told off if handwork is not taken/completed so in my opinion its not taken dd1 very long to work out that if she doesn't take it home, mummy doesn't find it in her bag and doesn't make her do it but that's ok because nobody says anything at school either. on top of that nobody at school seems to have realised that my dd1 is now refusing to take a school reading book home because she thinks they're boring. She hasn't taken a book home or writen a book review since January. At the parents evening they summarised this as her infant school basically over doing her Sats results and that there was no way she could realistically have got a 2a in Maths and a 3 in English as she's not really that good. I'm furious! When she left her infants she was nervous in Maths but keen to learn and adored English (all aspects). She's gone from eating books, attempting to write her own, being known in two libraries due to her keen descriptions of the books she's read to the librarians to a sullen child that no longer wants to write her own books, can't be bothered to write poetry (one of her major loves in life). I still take her to the library every fortnight and gradually I've reinstated reading a book together (she dropped this sometime last November). We're currently reading a mixture of the companion quartet and the spiderwick chronicles. I'm trying to introduce a couple of word games to her and get her to pick up writing the book reviews. But I do feel the child that I used to be able to threaten any naughty behaviour with keeping home from school is well and truly gone.

Oh and I suspect she's also being bullied. Comments like "Mummy, Maisy (I've no idea who maisey is she'd never been mentioned before) said that I must be on illegal drugs cos that's why I'm so wierd" or what about "everyone laughed at my new haircut" - she cried about this for 3 days. When I mentioned this to the head he said that girls could be bitches and that unfortunately that was the way of the world and that dd1 would just have to toughen up.

Sorry turned into an epic after all.

Hello Wills. I am sorry it really seems like your dd is having a hard time. The school absolutely have a duty of care towards your daughter. How is your relationship with her class teacher? I would hate to think a child in my class was so unhappy.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things regarding her reading, encouraging her to do the things she usually enjoys.
The head was right in that girls can be cruel but your dd has a right to feel secure at school and if the head knows what is going on he should do something about it. He may not feel it is bullying but unpleasant behaviour should not be accepted full stop!

Is there any way you could arrange a meeting with the class teacher and the head and work out a course of action together? Including a strategy for your dd to deal with nasty behaviour. ie. a trusted member of staff to go to, or a whole class chat about behaviour(obviously not bringing your dd to attention).

Wish you all the best.

I feel so much sympathy for you. I can speak from my own experience as a child that the changes you mentioned coming altogether as they did would have unsettled her loads. If on top of that she ended up in an unsupportive environment I am not surprised at her response. It is also true to say that from the age of 8 till probably about 12 girls (nowaydays more so I think... and I blame programmes like Neighbours etc which they all seem addicted to) can be really unpleasant. My dd (11) is at the receiving end of that in a very supportive school environment which doesn't tolerate this kind of behaviour - yet it still happens.

Does she like her teacher? At that age this can make or break a child's willingness to go the extra bit.

In the meantime I agree about getting head and class teacher together to discuss strategies rather than discussing the problem.

And also continue with your reading program at home. I have tried to explain to my daughters that doing homework is for their own benefit not the school and that has to some extent helped.

Hi Wills,

I'd say for a start that the tears, tantrums and anger you mention are from the fact that she feels she isn't in control of what's going on in her life. Some children don't manage change well, and take a while to shake down. Looking at it from her point of view she's moved house; her Dad isn't around as much; she has a new sibling to deal with, and that can really put your nose out of joint (she says at 42, with baby brother coming up to 40, and my nose still feels disjointed on occasions!). She shakes down beautifully in a new school, makes friends, and then it's all change again, and she's not with her friends. For an adult this might be tough, so it's doubly tough for her because she hasn't made any of these decisions for herself and she is powerless to change any of it. Pay attention here because none of this is your fault at all, so don't beat yourself up about it please.

Strategies to help. This is more difficult as it will vary according to each child. I found giving ds control over some of the small things; what we had for supper etc made a difference, as he felt he had a choice. We also discussed why we moved (out of the UK) and the benefits we would gain as a family from this.

The comments/bullying issue is more difficult to handle. I have to say that year 7 girls are the bitchiest things in creation, but that was comparing them with year 10 and 11 and reverting to being a year 7 tutor.

You need to help her to ignore what they say. Could they be jealous of her hair cut? They're weird, not you....etc may help. The name calling can be because your dd is clever and these others see that. My ds gets called a geek...response, geeks rule the world, look at Bill Gates, or, well, at least I'm not like you, have helped him, but he is older than your dd. To a certain extent this behaviour goes on in all schools, especially with the girls as they try to establish their pecking order. Your dd is going to have to learn to deal with it sooner or later. She will either do this by joining in with that crowd and adapting herself to them, or she will ignore them all and go her own way and they won't understand her. She may be lucky and find a group of what I would call 'nice' girls who just get on with life and are in their own self contained little group and happy to be so. They try hard in school and are genuinely good kids who will help when it's needed and try to look out for others.

As for school, you need to establish with the teacher what the homework policy and timetable is, and get a copy so that you can say to dd you should have 'x' homework tonight, shall we look at it? I have a copy of ds's h/w and actual timetable on the computer as I know he's not very organised about it, and this helps me to know what he should be doing. If she has a homework diary, ask her to write 'none set' when h/w isn't set, so you can check with the teacher if necessary.

Forget the book reviews for the moment...re-engaging her in reading is much more important, as this will provide her with an escape route if she needs it.

If the verbal bullying continues, then the Head MUST deal with it. It's no good saying she must toughen up, I've described above some strategies or outcomes; but having seen this in action it isn't true that 'words can never hurt you'. Words do hurt and once you've heard them they prey on your mind and make you question things about yourself that you'd never thought of before. You need to get hold of the anti-bullying policy for the school (they WILL have one), and then read it carefully. Your daughter needs to keep a diary of the incidents and where they happen and the Head has to act as he has a duty of care to your child.

This is the e-mail I sent to ds's tutor - you could adapt it as necessary for you.

'I wonder if it would be possible to have a meeting with either or both of you concerning x.
He tells me that the level of verbal aggravation from certain members of the year group has now got to the point where he doesn't want to come to school; and yesterday the aggravation got physical. He unfortunately retaliated in a like manner. I have told him that this was inappropriate, but understandable. I feel that something has to be done, as it is affecting his learning. X sees telling school about this as sneaking on the boys who are doing it, but I don't.

I know that the advice is to ignore verbal harassment; that is what I used to tell my year 7s, but to be called a Spastic and a retard every day is beginning to get to X. I have the names of the boys in question and would like to discuss this further with you, and I would like to know what measures the school's anti-bullying policy has in place to deal with this.'

Once you start to cite the anti-bullying policy they tend to take you seriously and do something about it.

Hope this helps...sorry I didn't post earlier, I've had a virus and been a bit sluggish this week.

Thanks everyone. Sorry I haven't responded but I had a sick bug saturday night then had to go to my mothers etc so have only just got back. I do hear what all of your are saying and I will once again revisit the way we are handling things at home. I'm skeptical re head teacher and teacher as I am now starting to feel that they would like me to go away and stop bothering them. I've asked for clarification over when homework is sent home but was told that there was set timetable and that homework was sent home when needed. I do think dd1 is finding her world too changeable and wants stability. My gut feeling is that she needs a slightly more rigid world in her schooling, stricter or put from another perspective where she will feel more important be that because of her achievements or when she steps out of line. She's struggling to go to sleep at the moment because its back to school tomorrow. For the last two weeks I've had glimpses of my old content daughter back. I feel very strongly that were my daughter more confident in her environment at school she would be able ignore the bullying. I've put this to the head but he said that possibly it was because she has two siblings and that possibly she feels left out! I shan't bother giving you my feelings on that count. When I pointed out that her English was going back, he suggested that possibly I, being of obvious middle class back ground (don't go there on that one!) was being too pushy simply to get her into the local grammar school (if I were so pushy I would be pushing her maths which at the moment will never allow her anywhere near a grammar!)! I want my child to enjoy school FFS! I want her to find the experience of learning brill! After that I really don't give a damn!

Sorry that is supposed to read No set timetable for homework.

Sorry about the typing but I'm annoyed that dd1 is so upset.

Scarey. I am now trying to see areas where she can feel more in control of things outside of school. She did announce to me the other day that she was now very happy to have moved house but at the same time finally opened up and told me how she had felt whilst moving. We discussed this in depth.

Good Luck Wills. I understand your reluctance to try and meet with her teacher and Head again but I really feel they have a duty of care towards your daughter and from what you say they are not upholding that duty.
Hope it all works out for you.

Try a letter to the Head and class teacher saying that she is beginning to refuse school, (because that'll be the next thing after not wanting to go to school because she feels ill) and that this is unacceptable, and detail what's causing it.

You could also write outlining your concerns about her progress and copy it to the Governors and the LEA. When I lived in Cornwall there was a problem like this, and it was only resolved by the kids being moved. You could go down the private tutor route for English and Maths if you can afford it. I assume that going private altogether is out of the question? You could also look into moving her to another school.

Will the class teacher change in September as she move up a year?

Ohhhh, bad morning. It was ok at first but about 20 minutes before we needed to leave when I started doing the final chases (i.e. book bag etc) she announced that she had terrible stomach ache and burst into floods of tears. In the end I've pushed her in because I'm worried that her fear of school is greater because of the two weeks we've had off and I'm hoping that by being back she'll cope better. An hour later I popped back into reception to see if things had settled. The receptionist phoned the class teacher and was informed that "Anna is still sniffly but appears to be settling down". It doesn't really give me a lot of confidence.

I wish I could change her school but they're all full and so its a waiting list game round here. I've even started looking at all the home tutoring links etc.

I've just read this thread and have a suggestion. There seems to be an enormous focus on your child to succeed in the way that she used to at her previous school - would it be useful to find a means for her to succeed at something outside of school i.e. some quick wins? Just thinking that it sounds as though all the changes have damaged her self-confidence and that hammering away at the academic stuff at the moment might be counter-productive. Is there another area of success where you could boost her self-esteem e.g. swimming, gymnastics, drama, music, art, horse-riding even.

HTH