vat on fees- can we have another thread with numbers/type of school ONLY?

[dietcokewithice]

I think it would be very useful for many of us to know what other schools are planning, but it's difficult pull this info out from the other thread as it became full of debate!

Be great if people could just post along these lines - eg

'15 percent rise from Jan '25 - London girls private'

'8 percent rise from September '24, rising to 12 percent in January '25 - North East boys private' - or whatever.

Our school (London co-ed) is raising fees by 4 percent in September. No info yet on what they will do from January '25!

thanks

School is very large Nursery to 6th Form.

Mildly off topic - what do other parents of full fee paying kids feel about bursaries now? I'm feeling less inclined to support them if the bursary funds come from fees paid by other parents (given the large hike in fees we are facing). If a bursary is from other sources (endowment or similar) then fine, but asking other parents to effectively pick up the bill seems increasingly unreasonable.

@Quodraceratops - our school has a large bursary scheme and as far as I understand it, these bursaries are supported largely by the fee income. School has said nothing changes for our current bursary holders, and I think that is right.

HOWEVER, what I am uncomfortable with is the school seems to be pushing ahead with offering bursaries for the next academic year and beyond. Behind the scenes, perhaps things are changing - but I don't think it's okay to offer bursaries to new pupils above offering some financial support to existing fee paying families who might have to pull their kids out of the school as it's no longer affordable ..

This might be another thread, but I'd like to know what (if anything) your schools are doing to help existing families who are struggling?

I'm okay with bursaries. I was / am a big supporter of them. DS2 has a part bursary which is a godsend for us. Our school has said they are likely to drastically reduce them- as we are just a small indy and the reserves are not huge. I feel sad at that and we need to find out if it affects us before we start making hard decisions. The school says until they know for sure what is happening in October all their ideas and plans are speculative only.

But I agree with @dietcokewithice that offering brand new bursaries when existing families may struggle to the point of pulling out does not seem quite right.

In terms of what our school is doing for struggling families- they just say in the first instance come and talk to them. And they have announced they will waive the term's notice if families have to move.

It's all up in the air really.

I agree with honouring existing bursaries or staff discounts on fees. I feel less happy about new pupils starting on bursaries and would prefer funds to be redirected towards existing families who are struggling, particularly in/approaching exam years. I don't know what my school is offering but they are encouraging parents who have issues to contact them & discuss, and we don't have details of Jan VAT plans yet (large Scottish school)

Am in agreement that existing bursaries remain but am uncomfortable at helping fund new ones. The VAT introduction makes for a hefty increase for us with two children at school. As for teacher discounts ( and thats a whole other topic) at our school they are 50% which is extremely generous. Perhaps these could remain but any new starting teachers could be offered less of a reduction. A contentious issue I know but the cost increases shouldn't just be felt solely by the parents.

Our school uses their investments to raise funds for bursaries and legacy donations. But yes I’d want that too for it to be directed. So difficult though.

Do you think that families of current students who are struggling with VAT, or other financial hardships, should have to meet the same standards as new students for bursaries?

I don’t understand why there is not more furore about what places like Eton are doing with the VAT. As I read it they are charging fee paying parents the full 20%, and then using any fee rebates they get (which may be significant, they build a lot) to not reduce the base fee but to do more fee discounts for others. I am sure the argument will be that some parents “won’t notice the extra cost” but lots of other parents will.

@user149799568 - I think it needs to be case by case. At our school, there is a HUGE gap between the (low) income/assets level that qualifies a child for a bursary, and the very wealthy families for whom the fee rise is a drop in the ocean. This has always been the case but it's got worse over recent years with constant fee hikes - and how there's the VAT on top. When my kids started at their school over a decade ago, the annual fees were HALF what they are now. Our household income has certainly not doubled in a decade!

I think bursars need to carefully consider other factors - size of families, if kids are going into exam years, how much pupils benefit the school community. It's problematic in itself (as schools should be about more than results!), but I think academic ability would be a key consideration in these situations in certain schools. If a year 12 child is likely to do very well at A-level and is a long term pupil, I would imagine bursars would want to support that child before they would want to support a newer year 8 kid who might be less able or behaves disruptively etc.

@WS2009 I think that's a very sensible position for Eton to take.

Many less prestigious schools don't have many ultra-wealthy families, they serve the more moneyed end of the middle classes (doctors, solicitors, engineers and university lecturers) and while they do also have bursaries, pretty much all families will be struggling to some extent with the increase so it's appropriate for them todo whatever they can to reduce the impact for everyone. This means that bursaries probably won't increase and someone who has a 60% bursary has to pay VAT on the 40% fees they fund which will be a big challenge.

With Eton and similar top-end schools they have a lot of extremely wealthy families with income in the millions who simply do not need any help with the extra, and it would be perverse to divert money to reduce the VAT impact for them. Much more sensible to let those who need no financial help pay the full whack and divert all available funds into topping up existing bursaries to reduce the impact for any family in receipt of a bursary that is less than 100%

@OpizpuHeuvHiyo thank you for your perspective, but I just don’t agree as a full fee paying parent. It is wokism gone mad. Eton can only reclaim the vat as the fee paying parents are paying it. It is only fair then, that those parents should get the benefit of any reclaim. Not all Eton parents not in receipt of a bursary are swimming in cash - a lot are saving hard to pay the fees/have remortgaged etc. Eton has a large endowment capable of paying many bursaries, it shouldn’t come from what is effectively an overpayment of net vat from full fee paying parents.

SE London Girls only: 8% annual fee increase pre-VAT. 15% from Jan 25
SE London Prep: 6.5% annual fee increase pre-VAT. No further increase from Jan 25 but have introduced meals fee of 300 per term.

With Eton (and I haven't looked it up) - has it been separated out so that school fees have the 20% VAT but it doesn't apply to boarding?

Absolutely not ok with new bursaries.

Ok with honouring existing commitments and assisting affected families in critical years or close to.

Ok with supporting other existing commitments / affected families in non-critical years to smooth out the transition (eg through the end of the year). However there should be some plan to phase out. I don’t wish abrupt changes on any one but equally I feel it’s not fair for full fee paying parents to carry them all the way through.

I don't agree with bursaries being funded from fees and was quite shocked at how much fee income is spent on bursaries by some schools.

I know a family who inherited a large house and withdrew their children from the school. They were happy to take free places, but not to pay for the education that they had previously valued so much.

All private schools have their own unique policy wrt bursaries (how they are awarded, income threshold) except that parents with children in receipt of bursaries are not supposed to make it known publicly, AFAIK. This is only information that you could get by asking the governors. Or perhaps it’s published on companies house?

As a fee paying parent, you don’t have a say in what your fees are spent on….

I am also of the opinion that a very bright child is more likely to be given a 100% bursary than anyone else.

@OpizpuHeuvHiyo i agree, I like Eton's approach on this. I would definitely want my school to continue funding new bursaries, as that's important to me, but I also think there should be an opportunity for current parents to apply for bursaries if they're now struggling due to VAT.

Shame

Anyway- this is sort of related.

It's been announced in my local paper that 2 local primaries are closing. State primaries. We have 6 primaries in our catchment area. I don't know off the top of my head how many children will be affected but they are saying in the paper that in each school about 12o and 90 reception places per school will be affected. So based on that - 800-ish students per school?

There has been alot of discussion on the VAT threads about how people who may have sent their Dcs to an indy school that has both primary and secondary school provision might hold back and only send at Year 7. Or that people with children already IN an indy private at primary might withdraw with the view to send them to the indy at Year 7. This would, of course, cause an influx of children looking for primary spaces.

Now there are about 800 children in state spaces looking for places in 4 other schools. never mind the children from independents who may be looking.

@TheShellBeach - not sure if you are trying to be funny? I have a child who will have to leave her school because we simply can't afford it anymore. She'll be leaving a school she does brilliantly at, where she has a great circle of friends and is very happy. We don't have a choice.

You never know, she might fuck up her a-levels on the back of that change, which will affect her university, which might affect the course of her life....

I hope it will be all be fine for her, but I don't appreciate stupid sarcasm just because we (originally) had the means to send her there.

Hi @potionsmaster, could I ask whether you are a parent paying full fees? I do think other perspectives would be different, so it would be interesting to know if you were. Apologies if it seems an intrusive query.

6% increase from September, no mention of what the increase will be in January.

Do you know why the state primaries are closing? Seems strange for 2 to close at the same time, even if student numbers are down.

Student numbers are down it seems. We are in a very economically deprived area generally.

I can send you the local reports via PM if you wish but I don't particularly wish to out myself online given everything else I post on MN