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Original poster

Year 4 school appeal help please

15 replies

empee47 · 15/08/2024 13:35

Hoping someone can help me please. Eight year old daughter starting year 4 in September. Unhappy with current school for a variety of reasons - friendship issues, bullying, child was assaulted by another and that child is still there, weak leadership from head and high number of children with severe behavioural problems. My child has no special requirements but desperately needs a fresh start due to the above. Applied for transfer via local council but school is full in year 4 although not at 30 pupils yet. I’m now going to appeal. Any advice?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 16/08/2024 00:09

If you have evidence that your daughter is being bullied and the school has not done anything effective to stop it, that will help. Any letters/emails you have sent about the matter would be evidence. However, do not talk about weak leadership from the head or the high number of children with behavioural issues. That won't help you and could alienate the panel. Friendship issues are also unlikely to help.

Apart from the bullying, you need to identify what the appeal school can offer your daughter that is missing from her current school. Make a positive case for why she needs that school.

Original poster
empee47 · 16/08/2024 09:08

prh47bridge · 16/08/2024 00:09

If you have evidence that your daughter is being bullied and the school has not done anything effective to stop it, that will help. Any letters/emails you have sent about the matter would be evidence. However, do not talk about weak leadership from the head or the high number of children with behavioural issues. That won't help you and could alienate the panel. Friendship issues are also unlikely to help.

Apart from the bullying, you need to identify what the appeal school can offer your daughter that is missing from her current school. Make a positive case for why she needs that school.

Thank you. So I should be aiming to go down the route of not criticising the current school and listing all that’s wrong with it but instead push for what the preferred school could provide. Interested to hear why you think that mentioning weak leadership and the high number of children with behavioural issues would alienate the panel…

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FunLurker · 16/08/2024 09:21

Agree with prh. It's very hard to prove weak leadership and you can't mention how they choose to discipline a child as unless it has something to do with your child. What does the new school have/do that is different?.

prh47bridge · 16/08/2024 09:48

The panel is independent from the school to which you are applying, but there may be members with links to your child's current school. Showing that your child has been bullied and providing evidence that the school is not doing anything effective to deal with it is fine. However, if a panel member is friendly with the head of your child's current school, they may not react well to allegations that leadership is weak. And if they have other involvement with the current school, they may not agree with your assessment of behavioural issues and think it comes across as you saying that your child is too good for this school.

The only times I would ever say something negative about the child's current school would be if there is evidence of them being bullied and the school failing to take effective action, or if there is a clear safeguarding issue affecting this child specifically (e.g. the child of a police officer attending the same school as the child of a criminal they have dealt with).

schooladmission · 16/08/2024 11:15

as @prh47bridge says, be very careful of badmouthing the current school.

I present appeals for the local authority and many are for our local girls school - often they have been offered a place in a perfect good girls school in a neighbouring borough. The parents often bad mouth the school saying what a terrible school it is and so they need the place in the school they're appealing for.

One of our regular panel members has a daughter at that school so none of the appellants who do this are helping their case

PatriciaHolm · 16/08/2024 11:25

At root, you are appealing for a school, not against one. The bullying, if clearly evidenced showing you have tried to address it and it's still an issue -fine. That's a good argument.

"Weak" leadership is often a matter of perspective, and is not grounds for appeal, nor is general behaviour - and the latter may also be an issue in the appeal school, as many primaries are seeing a rise in need. They are also not points that address "why my child needs this school" , they are "i want out of existing school" - which is a very weak argument for an appeal for a specific school.

You need to focus on what the appeal school can offer your daughter, as well as addressing their argument that they are full.

Original poster
empee47 · 16/08/2024 23:48

FunLurker · 16/08/2024 09:21

Agree with prh. It's very hard to prove weak leadership and you can't mention how they choose to discipline a child as unless it has something to do with your child. What does the new school have/do that is different?.

Thank you. The preferred school has a head who is well known locally for her no nonsense style of leadership. Firm but fair is how she’s described. That’s how the new school is different. Also, classes are bigger so greater pool of children to choose from whereas tiny class currently means daughter hasn’t found her fit and can’t just play with someone else as there is nobody.

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Original poster
empee47 · 16/08/2024 23:50

schooladmission · 16/08/2024 11:15

as @prh47bridge says, be very careful of badmouthing the current school.

I present appeals for the local authority and many are for our local girls school - often they have been offered a place in a perfect good girls school in a neighbouring borough. The parents often bad mouth the school saying what a terrible school it is and so they need the place in the school they're appealing for.

One of our regular panel members has a daughter at that school so none of the appellants who do this are helping their case

Edited

Gosh, thank you, very helpful.

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Original poster
empee47 · 16/08/2024 23:52

PatriciaHolm · 16/08/2024 11:25

At root, you are appealing for a school, not against one. The bullying, if clearly evidenced showing you have tried to address it and it's still an issue -fine. That's a good argument.

"Weak" leadership is often a matter of perspective, and is not grounds for appeal, nor is general behaviour - and the latter may also be an issue in the appeal school, as many primaries are seeing a rise in need. They are also not points that address "why my child needs this school" , they are "i want out of existing school" - which is a very weak argument for an appeal for a specific school.

You need to focus on what the appeal school can offer your daughter, as well as addressing their argument that they are full.

Thank you. You make an excellent point about appealing for a school and not against. Would it be ok to say sthg along lines of preferred school offers better sporting opportunities but current school too small to enter teams, that sort of thing?

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RedToothBrush · 16/08/2024 23:55

empee47 · 16/08/2024 23:52

Thank you. You make an excellent point about appealing for a school and not against. Would it be ok to say sthg along lines of preferred school offers better sporting opportunities but current school too small to enter teams, that sort of thing?

Show quote history

That's about personal choice not NEED. Do you think they will approve a change on the basis of 'it sounds a better school' as a preference rather than the school fulfilling a need that the other can't.

Original poster
empee47 · 17/08/2024 00:03

RedToothBrush · 16/08/2024 23:55

That's about personal choice not NEED. Do you think they will approve a change on the basis of 'it sounds a better school' as a preference rather than the school fulfilling a need that the other can't.

Show quote history

True, my daughter needs a fresh start as she’s being bullied, has been assaulted, small year group and nobody she has gelled with. I do have to present my case as need rather than want. I’m wondering if I’ll have more to go at with the class size as even with admitting her, they wouldn’t have surpassed 30 kids.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 17/08/2024 00:11

If you have evidence of bullying and that the school isn't doing anything effective to address it, that is a good case. And yes, if your daughter likes sports or is particularly good at sports, the appeal school offering better sporting opportunities is a good point.

TizerorFizz · 17/08/2024 00:30

If the PAN is 30, the school cannot have a place available and not admit. So what is the PAN? Why have they not said yes if the pan is 30? That’s what I would ask. Make sure it is 30 though and not 28. If they regularly admit over pan, point that out. Get info from the school.

My LA gives advice on appeals. Look to see if yours does. You must link what the new school offers and what your DD needs. Do not mention sports teams if she isn’t interested in sport. You should link what she needs: eg larger school for breadth of friends, better curriculum for her, ethos of school, behaviour policy, quality of school clubs if applicable, pastoral support - and give evidence of why the school is better for her. Don’t just say “I have heard that etc”. Explain DD’s needs and how the new school meets them, with evidence.

Do not rubbish the old one. You are not appealing against it. You are appealing for the new one.

schooladmission · 17/08/2024 01:21

This is an in-year appeal for an existing year group. PAN technically only exists for Reception - so if the school say that year 4 is full at 28, then they can. They have planned and budgeted for the year at that number and can be full - they could have smaller classrooms higher up the school and planned which rooms to use based on the number of children on roll.

It is easier for you to argue a case but there is technically not a PAN to argue there is a space either

Original poster
empee47 · 20/10/2024 21:55

Totally forgot to update, for anyone who is interested, that we got in! So happy and daughter is having a far better time in her new school. Really pleased with it. Thanks to all who replied to my original post with helpful advice x

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