How would you reform primary education?

[Hobbleouchouch]

I found the secondary education thread really interesting.

As a soon-to-be-primary-school-parent, I would love to know your thoughts on what would make the perfect primary school!

Thanks!

As an experienced Primary Teacher I would:

Scrap Y6 SATs,
Have the curriculum devised by child development experts and based on how children learn, not imposed by government ministers and not changed eery time we get a new political party in government.
Maybe have an integrated wholistic way of learning rather than teaching individual subjects in 1 hour slots- e.g a topic based cross-curricular approach for a lot of things.
Scrap the grammar test and reform the way grammar is taught throughout school- learning grammar rules and the technical terms for them out of context does not create good writers!
Pare down the intensive teaching of phonics a little and go back to including some wider reading skills,
Allow teachers to differentiate learning more- not sure if this is a national trend or just my school but there is a lot of whole class teaching with little differentiation for more able or those struggling- especially in maths.
Have a largely play based curriculum until at least the end of Year one and far more opportunities for practical investigations and physical engagement.
Limit the use of Powerpoint based lessons, especially for the younger years,
Have smaller class sizes and more TA support- not just for SEN, but for all the children!
More time for creative subjects like Art, Dt etc.
Have more Special School places for children who need specialist interventions- not having them trying to cope in unsuitable classrooms and without appropriate resources.

I felt sorry for my children 15 years ago. Everything was so regimented even then.
As a child if it was a nice day our teachers would pick up the desks and set up class outside.
Children in top classes would sit and read aloud in breaks to the little ones, we also taught them maths.
Our kitchen staff would get us to make food treats once a week.
If the children were restless the teachers would organise a mass school game of British bulldog... everyone runs across a field , if you were caught you joined the chain of catchers...
We had waterfights in the summer , and lots more... and yes our school had 50 to 60 pupils. Over 50% each year passed the 11 plus. A very good normal village school.

Ditch the curriculum and let children be children for a bit longer, using their imaginations and exploring. Seven is entirely soon enough to be introducing formal learning.
Trust the professionalism of teachers and ditch the micro managing, form filling and number crunching.
Music and the arts from day one ... let them sing and dance!!

I think more research should be done into school inspections internationally. Ofsted is one of the leading causes for teachers to quit the profession completely. We are currently in a teaching recruitment and retention crisis.

Maybe we need to look at how other countries ensure standards are good in school, without a massively punitive and personal inspection regime which is driving teachers away.

The changes I would make would not necessarily be in the school itself, but in the support services.

When I started teaching, if a child arrived in my class with a particular SEN, I would be visited, supported and advised by an Advanced Skills Teacher for whom that SEN was a speciality. They would provide resources, individual intervention training for me or TAs, and revisit regularly to review progress. If an Ed Psych or other specialist report was needed, then a familiar Ed Psych would visit promptly, administer a wide variety of assessments and observations (often over more than 1 visit over time) before providing a comprehensive report, resources for intervention etc. Applications for SEN funding were processed promptly on the back of these reports, so suitable staff could be employed rapidly.

Similarly, SaLT visited regularly to work directly with pupils. If we referred a child to the GP or specialist for a medical need, that appointment was quick and waiting lists were short. Families who were struggling could be referred for family support and received this in a timely manner. Anything serious enough to merit Social Services or police intervention was met with an appropriate level of response. CAMHS were responsive and delivered required support rapidly. Referrals to PRUs, special schools etc for the children who needed them were bureaucratic but there was capacity matching the level of need.

This meant that - despite working in a school with high levels of deprivation and SEN - the load on me as a teacher was much lower than it is now. Essentially, the erosion of external support services means that schools now have to provide - and bear the mental, physical, time and financial burden if - all of the above, from food to medical needs to SEN to family support.

I nodded all the way through this-it’s exactly the same in my LA.

Ten years ago, a child with SEND would start in Reception and they would have been receiving Speech therapy for some time-referred by the HV, who would also have referred them for a MDA for ASD. The nursery would have been supported by the Early years senco to apply for a Statutory Assessment, meaning an EP would have visited and an EHCP would be in place which gave them virtually full time support in place for when they started Reception. We would have plenty of time in place to hire a suitable member of staff and start a robust transition into school whereby the ASD specialist teacher team would visit termly and allocate a support worked to come weekly when necessary. They would also attend the Annual Review and provide invaluable support for the class teacher.

Now, we have school-aged children who are non verbal, in nappies and working at 12-18 months level of development who have never seen a speech therapist because the HV is off on long term sick with no replacement and nobody has referred them, the nursery haven’t applied for an EHCP because the early years senco team got made redundant and they haven’t been supported to do so, so there is no EHCP in place, so no member of staff to support them in reception. We then have to put in a request for a Statutory Assessment when they start, but there are no EPs to do this. There are also no specialist teachers or support workers as they were also all made redundant. When the EHCP is finally agreed, nearly a year later, the child is only awarded enough funding for a a few hours each day and massively struggles. Parent decides mainstream really isn’t working, and wishes they’d started all this sooner but there are no special school places available for love nor money. Parent is angry at the school for ‘failing’ their child.

I no longer want to be part of this broken system.

This is all so informative. Thank you.

Thanks for all your replies- this has been really informative.

I has naively thought my daughter would have a similar experience at primary to the one had 30 years ago.

I'm interested in the fact that small class sizes, more TAs and more resources have come up repeatedly as part of the solution. However, I read lots of threads on here where people who can afford private school places (including VAT and yesrly fee rises) which presumably have these perks are told to go state as the education is the same/ better?

Maybe I am asking if all the challenges are overcomeable with skilled and dedicated teachers, or whether the whole system is failing?

Money. Smaller classes & more teachers. All the curriculum stuff is just a distraction from the fact that it boils down to teacher:student ratios.

Oh - I would go back to having a centralised council budget for everything too. If a window is broken the council comes out & fixes it. If you need 16 new toilets, the council builds them. When I chaired the PTA I was shocked at how much time went into stressing about money for this kind of thing and (unqualified, busy people) putting things out to tender. Enormous wastes of money when the council is literally right there with the personnel and resources.

I remember when schools having to organise their own budgets in this way (LMS?) came in and my HT was bewailing the fact that she didn't train as a teacher to spend hours in her office ordering toilet rolls and light bulbs.

Maybe I am asking if all the challenges are overcomeable with skilled and dedicated teachers

Well, I am a skilled and dedicated teacher and the ‘challenges’ have nearly broken me. The 163000 members of the Life after teaching-Exit the Classroom and thrive’ Facebook group would probably agree.

I don’t mind a ‘challenge’ in my job, but there comes a point where it’s just impossible-now is that time. Why do we want to do this to our teachers?

Maybe I am asking if all the challenges are overcomeable with skilled and dedicated teachers

The teachers are skilled and dedicated.
Very.

The system of constantly recording and assessing every microtarget of every 5 minutes of teaching is breaking teachers.

My primary aged son came home with 24, A4 sized exercise books all completely full with writing and teachers comments at the end of year 5, pasted in targets on every page. Times that by 30 - that's 720 books for the teachers to mark, assess and create into stats in less than 36 weeks. Oh - besides teaching full time 9am till 3pm, Mon to Fri and deal with the SEND and social needs of every pupil.

It's ludicrous.

This. It's no good being skilled and dedicated if your management only wants you to use lessons from an Academy approved published scheme.

In any 20 minute observation children had to be seen to be making progress (I have been retired 10 years so things might have changed but I doubt it) no time for consolidation or reflection. After one observation I was told that one child had made no progress in the phonics lesson - that child was awaiting assessment for autism and it was actually huge progress that he was sitting with the group and trying to take part rather than lying on the floor screaming.

Maybe I am asking if all the challenges are overcomeable with skilled and dedicated teachers, or whether the whole system is failing?

We have the skilled and dedicated teachers - that is not where the problem lies.

These people are being steadily ground down by the cumbersome, micro-managing, ham-fisted system that the Tories (and Gove in particular) have saddled them with. Their skills and dedication are ignored, sidelined, undervalued - it is soul-destroying for them.

They are gathering data, filling in assessment forms, micro-monitoring results, writing policies - all to tick boxes and produce statistics that are required, not to assist the children's happiness and progress, but to supply the DofE with data they can use to pretend they are "doing something" about education.

Teachers should be focusing on lesson plans, supporting the children's learning, picking up on those who are struggling and providing/seeking the right help - they should not be wasting their time on stats and reports and data gathering.

And behind these teachers should be a system that frees everyone in the school to get on with the business of education - no-one (not even the head) should be worrying about buildings/grounds maintenance or supplies. They are there to educate not to count beans or survey the drains.

Once upon a time the LA took responsibility for the school buildings, inspections (coupled with support where problems were found - this is the critical missing factor), school meals, provision of specialist input (for SEN/GAT etc.), legal matters, planning issues, IT support, personnel and payroll, financial matters and budget management - in other words anything that is not education.

The LA education departments have deliberately been allowed to dwindle away to virtually nothing and schools are left not only holding these babies - but having to pay for them out of their budget. Many parents do into realise that schools have to enter into SLAs (Service Level Agreements) - in other words contracts to obtain the sort of services listed above. Every time a child is identified as having SEN, the school has to dip into its budget to fund a professional assessment, (for which it will wait months) then (assuming help is required) for specialist input identified - which is only partially state funded. So - when your child is designated extra help, the cost is met by the school and means that fewer pencils can be bought, or musical instruments or whatever.

Do the allocated budgets rise in line with the additional outgoings? - do they buggery. And not only that, professional educators are wasting their time trying to deal with all this, when they should be .... well, educating the children.

It is a complete disaster, and turning it around is virtually impossible - it requires the will and lots and lots of time.

Teachers have been telling the government all this for years - and they never never listen. It is deeply depressing, particularly so as dedicated teachers are burning out, leaving or taking their lives.

It is no way to run an education system, and when things go wrong or shortcomings are identified the department can wash its hands of it, saying that it is the school's responsibility and problem to solve - and allow them to be downgraded on inspection so that they become less popular, fewer pupils, less finding and down the spiral goes. The school's sole responsibility is to educate the children and the sooner they are freed up to do this well the better.

We need to look at other countries and what works there. Currently, we have a massive retention/recruitment crisis and need to make changes in order to get anyone to stay in teaching.

Do we really need…

-a massively overfull curriculum for small children? Having taught many children 20+ years ago in a curriculum that wasn’t like this, I know that this is unnecessary and causes large levels of stress.

-to micromanage our teachers until they are so stressed, they leave? Again, i know it doesn’t have to/didn’t used to be like this. Do good teachers need constant learning walks, lesson observations, book scrutinies, mocksteds? Does anyone else have teams of people in their job who sit there with a clipboard making notes on you continually or are you allowed to just do your job?

-an inspectorate regime that causes teachers in the ‘window’ to dread the start of the week, until Wednesday lunchtime, when they know they are ‘safe’ for just one more week, cause subject leads (who get no extra pay or time) to be in floods of tears worrying about subject Deep Dives, to cause heads to be on anti-depressants for anxiety about what a bad result will mean for their school/job/career?

-to hound experienced teachers out of their job on capability or support plans purely because they are expensive and it’s the only way heads can balance the books by replacing them with a young cheap model?

-to make our teachers do so much pointless paperwork they are working 50/60 hours before there is a clause in their contract that means they have to do 1265 of directed hours but also any hours that are needed to get the job done? Why can’t they just do what they need for their classes?

To make our few remaining experienced teachers teach large classes, with very little funding or resources, inadequate staffing, high levels of SEN, whilst expecting them to still achieve the same results as before. We also expect them to mentor new teachers, in their own time, for no pay or time to do so, alongside trying to carry the rest of the staff who may be cover, TAs being expected to teach, a carousel of supply etc etc

Teaching primary school children should be a lovely job. It used to be a lovely job. So, why can’t it be again?

My friend got marked down in Ofsted because she gave a child a sticker for contributing to a discussion. Apparently she should have waited till the end of the lesson so as not to 'waste time'.
The child had never put a hand up or contributed in the 8 months she had been teaching him so she wanted to give an immediate reward.
Marked down for encouraging a shy child.

Madness!

Well quite - but who is listening? Do the DofE give a cuss?

As others have pointed out, the education system is already full of dedicated and skilled teachers. I was one of them and left as I couldn’t carry on. I now home educate my own DC (as an aside, teachers are one of the most over-represented groups of parents in EHE).

The whole system needs a reset. It’s not moved or evolved with the times and is stuck in the Victorian era. It’s a one size fits all exam factory which does a disservice to our young people.

Until this happens the teachers and pupils are stuck in a dysfunctional system which has them pointing the blame at each other instead of the governments (caveat I realise many teachers do know the govt is to blame).

Maybe I am asking if all the challenges are overcomeable with skilled and dedicated teachers

I think we need to flip this around and ask why any skilled and dedicated professionals would want to work in a job where they are worked like dogs and treated so appallingly?

Answer-they don’t. They are fleeing the profession like rats on a sinking ship.

The only way this is going to be resolved is by making fundamental changes to the job itself.

Will the new Ed Sec do it?

Would someone like to forward this thread link to the Ed Sec?

I thought some of the drop was blamed on recent PISA scores was Covid related. There was a lot more stopping and starting In Wales - and my DC secondary being open but entire year groups sent home a lot.

Up to Y9 they annually sat maths, English and I think science in national test - they were age adjusted score which I though daft as the exams with their year cohort - we were told by their teachers at primary they got brought in as when SATs were scrapped standards fell a lot. So they are testing but more regularly and more low key.

Personally we are in a very low funded per student area with low GCSE results and I do think it's directly related.

Class sizes are massive issue - we move here from England older two went from primary classes of 34-37 (school Y3 always had more students join despite school objections) - to 24-26. Made a huge difference to them - youngest went to class of 30 so not much difference. DS persistent handwriting issue we were helping with at home got teacher attention in school where most of writing is done and it was sorted by end of the year. They also had enough staff to have floating teacher and taught maths to ability not age so my older two got extension classes - that was gone by time youngest got to that age.

It might not have been science but another maths one reasoning - now I think about it - but they were tested and we got results with end of term reports.

I would look to slightly extend the school day by maybe 20 minutes and add physical exercise daily - ranging from swimming to dance and all different types of sports. This would help working parents and make our children healthier.
Could be compensated for by slightly longer holidays as I think it’s good for them to get down time