unpopular teacher

[tigermoth]

A new part time teacher joined my son's school recently. She takes year 6 two days a week. Since she joined, I have heard nothing but criticisms about her from my son and his friends. They hate her! Ok, I am talking to boys only, but when questioned they say all the class think she is way too strict and unkind.

Now these boys have very different personalities and aren't all part of the same gang. They are relatively well behaved on the whole. Most of them like the school and their other teachers a lot.

I just find it odd that so many different children can take such a definite dislike to one particular teacher. I wonder if the teacher (or her colleagues) realise what children are saying about her out of school?

I suppose the children could be jumping on the same bandwagon and criticising her because everyone else is.

She has been known to get a bit physical with the children - taps on the collar bone, loud shouting in the ear etc. I know my son feels she has physically overstepped the limits with him. I have spoken to the head about this in relation to my son. The head then spoke to my son alone and (I think) to the teacher.

Since then I have heard criticisms about her from about 5 or 6 other children (not physical stuff, just her personality and teaching style) and wonder if I should be more concerned?

Hopefulmover, I do take your point that children can exaggerate stories. Also, my son will describe an incident without putting it into context. ie 'I got shouted at for fiddling with my pencil case' I then find out he has been doing this for half an hour without stopping when told to!

However, a hit is a hit is a hit. The teacher either touched him or she didn't. He has never made up teacher-hitting-me stories before, so I have no reason to believe he would do it this time. He is not in serious trouble, so I can't see any incentive for him to lie, or lie about her touching other children.

I take your point about checking things out. I have already done this. Last term when my son was hurt by this teacher (she pulled hard on his restraining lap belt on a school coach journey) I took this up with the head and the other teacher in his year. My son said it shocked and hurt him and she did this to no other children but him. I know it's not like getting caned, but it as my son was upset, I wanted to make teachers aware of this. They investigated it, talked to my son and the teacher (I think) but certainly didn't say then or later that the physical contact hadn't happened. I am now checking out other parent's views on this teacher, just to see if they have heard similar stories from their children.

I can't go along with your generalisation about boys parents don't realise how bad their children are in groups. What about the playdates and parties we host, the school outings we go on, the extra curricular activites we attend? Ok these aren't classroom activites, but then neither are parents trained teachers. You say the parents of boys in your daughter's class have no idea how bad their sons are at school. I assume this means you regularly help in the classroom and have talked to the parents about their sons' behaviour....

I agree, tigermoth. I think mums of boys are only too aware of how they can behave. It's the age-old thing of the way schools are organised is more suited to the way girls learn than the way boys learn. Boys need to move around and be physical which is why they find it so hard to sit still and concentrate. Perhaps if schools were more geared to boys, you might find the girls proving troublesome.

Tigermoth, really sorry to hear this. I went to the school about a new teacher and had a meeting with her etc and it turned out she was only there for 3 weeks covering whilst they employed someone else! If enough people complain I am sure she won't last long.

Go and see her and ask for the Head to be present. It's not horrible Mrs Whyte is it? She shouldn't be able to get away with intimidation as a way of controlling the children. Perhaps let others know you are going and a few more unhappy ones may come out the woodwork.

yes it does tigermoth. Helped in the classroom and needed to separate some of the boys - not physically but by telling them to go to different parts of the classroom. Discussed the boys behaviour when the new teacher was getting a lot of complaints. And I've seen how the boys behave at the school disco - and threatened to take one of them home. None of the boys parents were there to help and I know that they don't give parties involving all the boys at once.

You said "my son was hurt by this teacher (she pulled hard on his restraining lap belt on a school coach journey) I took this up with the head and the other teacher in his year. My son said it shocked and hurt him" If you saw a child with a loose seat belt in your car you might possibly pull it tight. If your son liked scary rides the assistants often pull belts to check they are properly attached. Your son didn't see this done to anyone else but it is possible either that it was or that other teachers checked other children or that your son was the only one whose belt was not properly attached. Presumably the school investigated, has some such explanation and decided it was not something to be concerned about? If I ever help on another school trip I'd be afraid to touch a child's seat belt even if it was clearly unattached and the coach was about to pull off. Safer for me to risk them having an accident, even if they are having trouble attaching the belt!

Batters it is not a boy v girl discussion. It is about accepting that children - boys or girls - are not always entirely accurate in what they say and that they behave differently in groups. However it is the mothers of boys who seem to be overly protective of their children. I do not see that it helps tigermoth or her son to reinforce a belief that every time anyone touches a child it is a major issue. It needs investigating but it is not always as clear cut as a child will make it sound. There are other threads on mumsnet where everyone has become worked up and found a simple explanation at the end. But a witchhunt is easier and will make you popular.

Batters is right- this shouldn't become a boys v girls argument. Agreed different children have different learning strengths eg visual, audial, and kinetic but you shouldn't lump all the boys in one category hopefulmover and all the girls in another. To my mind Tigermoth has always shown an extremely level headed awareness of her son's behaviour and is not at all an over-protective mother of her son, as you seem to be implying.

Even if the seat belt issue was one of safety there was no need for the teacher to pull it so hard that she hurt the child. As far as I can see Tigermoth did not say that the seat belt was unattached, rather that the teacher pulled hard on the retraining belt. I do hope that you will reconsider your implied threat not to check and help a child having trouble with their seat belt next time you are on a school trip!

Your final comment of a witchhunt is totally over the top and quite uncalled for.

I object to your sweeping statement that it is the mothers of boys who are overprotective. Although with attitudes like this, perhaps they are right to be.

Tigermoth has always been very reasoned and balanced in her reporting of problems and has never struck me as an over-protective mother. Rather one who sees her child for what he is, but will not see him unfairly treated.

All the mothers of boys that I know, and I know a lot, generally accept that boys can be rough, physical, disruptive and noisy - I also know a lot of girls who fit this description too - and very few of them immediately jump to their child's defence without ascertaining the facts.

Sweeping generalisations and demonising of boys doesn't really help Tigermoth or move this discussion on.

When my son complained about the seatbelt teghtening, I tried to talk him out of it. I told him the teacher must have tightened it for safety. I asked if he was mucking about on the coach and not sitting down properly, hence the teacher's intervention. I also said he would have to tell his story to other teachers, if I made a complaint, so did he really want me to proceed?

He was still adament the teacher had done something wrong and insisted I spoke to his other form teacher. This is not like him. He likes teachers, he doesn't challenge every minus mark he gets from them, his favourite teacher is also the strictest at the school (apart from this new one). From what I can gather, she did tighten the seat belt for safety reasons (at least that's what she says. My son said his seat belt was already corretly locked in and as tight as his neighbour's. I wasn't there so I can't comment. My son says he was not trying to move around in his seat, so didn't need a physical reminder to sit still. But he was one of a large group who were talking. The teacher was annoyed with them all, but (I gather) rather than telling them to be quiet, she picked one child out (my son) and yanked his seat belt hard enough to hurt him. He is 10 years old, the seat belt was a lap belt. At his age, being hurt in that area of his body was especially humiliating. Enough said, I think.

I'm not cross that this teacher is being strict, or even that she picks out individual children possibly unfairly. It's the physical way she chooses to punish and enforce her message that makes me worried.

Tigermoth, I missed this earlier. I too think you should talk to the head, this teacher sounds out of control.

Hopeful mover I too think sweeping generalisations about boys and the mothers of boys are unhelpful. If you want to make them, I suggest you start another thread.

Tigermoth, I agree with what most people have said - the boys v girls comments belong elsewhere! This teacher does sound like she's having real difficulties. As a parent I would be upset and really quite cross. As a colleague I would identify that she is suffering from stress and do something urgent to sort it out. I only met you once, but I reckon you would come across as calm and balanced when talking to a head and explaining the situation, and so I just want to repeat what I said before. Keep talking to the head, keep reporting incidents. Keep up the calm, detailed approach. The head may well be having difficulties dealing with this. I had a colleague who was (I could see) stressed out and I feared s/he was teaching badly and treating children badly, but everytime I turned up or talked to her/him, s/he managed to pull the wool over my eyes. Our parents are not so good at contacting us, but I was able to eventually get enough info to sort the problem out. If only I'd had parents who were more forthcoming!

fisil, I too feel this is the behaviour of a stressed adult. Starting a new job is stressful in itself. The class is recognised as a particularly challenging one (teachers have told me this). The yr 6 SATS are looming, so I can understand the teacher wanting to push the children a bit harder and stamp out bad, distracting behaviour.

I didn't start a thread on this seatbelt incident when it happened last term as I knew I would see the head about it. I didn't want to waste everyone's time by asking for advice, as I knew what I was going to do And also, I feel this one single incident is minor in the grand scheme of things.

It's the growing collection of complaints that's made me concerned. I know one other boy and his mother were upset about this teacher but I thought we were the only ones. Over the holidays I talked to 4 or 5 other boys in my son's class of 22. All of them, without prompting, seemed hostile towards this teacher and felt she was unfair. I am concerned that she seems so generally unpopular.

Of course I did not start this thread for a girls v boys debate. I wanted other teachers' and parents' perspecitves on how physical a teacher is allowed to be, as I remeber teachers doing this sort of thing when I was at school, but that's a long time ago.

Thanks for your comments on my level headedness. I am really trying to be level headed about this. I want to see how other parents feel about this teacher, especially parents of the girls and boys who don't get into trouble usually. If they feel the same, I'll meet the other teacher and tell her.

secondhandrose, hello! just had to ask, who is Mrs Whyte?

Hi Tigermoth, I don't believe that teachers are allowed to administer any physical punishment at all nowadays and poking a child in the head with her fingers must fall into this category. I would report this to the head teacher.

Shouting in a child's ear is, quite frankly, stupid, ignorant and dangerous. It can be $$$$ing painful too.

I would certainy raise my concerns with the head for this and the poking and tapping.

tigermoth, she sounds awful!

(Not very constructive I know, just backing you up - I'll hold your coat for you, shall I? )

Haven't read whole thread but she sounds like a throwback. How old is she?

btw DS2's Y7 teachers are not like this at all, if it helps.

Tigermoth, you're not overreacting, this teacher really does sound like she needs a sabbatical.

Message withdrawn

Tigermoth, Mrs Whyte is the really horrible teacher that I went to the school to complain about and it turned out she was only there 3 weeks. She did not like my DS one bit and he was quite hysterical by the end of it. Probably a lezzie (ducks for cover).

thanks for all your comments. As it happens, I am seeing my son's other form teacher for a short, private meeting next week. I think, now, I will definitely tell her about the tapping on head incident and tell her the date it happend, to see if it needs to be recorded.

If by then I have spoken to other parents and they have similar feelings, I will allude to this, too.

Incidently, this term, on the days my son has been taught by his unpopular teacher, he has notched up far more minus marks than on the days he is taught by his other teacher. OK one teacher could just be stricter, or my son is just coincidently naughtier. On the other hand, the teacher could have a bad relationship with the class and not be doing her job very well. I am going to point out the difference in marks, anyway.

Hope you get it sorted. Let us know how the meeting goes.

Been reading this with sympathy. Shouting in the ear sounds horrible! Honestly, if it were me (I mean, if someone did to me what the teacher has done to your son), that would be the worst. Very scary, painful and deliberately intimidating. The rest sounds bad, also.

When you meet the teacher, could you mention all of the incidents? I have to say that I'm sure you won't come over as a neurotic parent (you couldn't if you tried!) and she needs to know it's not just a one off.

Hope things get better for your boy.