What if Keir Starmer had been forced to move school part way through?

[Kitsot]

I find it interesting that Keir Starmer attended a state grammar school and was allowed to stay on for free after it moved to private whilst he was there. He doesn’t seem to consider it an issue that children will need to be moved from private to state school part way through their time at a school due to the VAT imposition. I wonder how different his life would have turned out if he had instead been forced to leave his school and move to the local comprehensive or wherever had space.

Further to this, to me it would make more sense if VAT was only added to fees for children joining at the usual entry points from next September and then going forward for those years from that point. It would still be an unpopular policy but it would at least give parents time to apply for state schools within the normal entry rounds and children wouldn’t need to move school part way through, which can be hard even if it is between two similar types of schools. The downside is that it wouldn’t initially raise as much money as planned.

Just for transparency to add that I am in a fairly neutral position regarding this and have experience of both sectors. I myself am from a working-class background and went to a bog-standard comprehensive in the 1980s.

If that were really true, we would expect to see a heavy preponderance of private schools concentrated in the areas where state schools are weakest, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm sure that your argument may be true in a minority of cases, but I don't buy it for the majority. Of course, not everyone has access to outstanding state grammar schools etc, and for some people, that is the only state option that they're willing to consider, but kids with supportive, aspirational parents do well in a much wider range of schools than this.

But in any case, even if we accept the premise that your local schools aren't up to much, if you know that you may not be able to afford to keep them in private schools for the duration, then you have to question the wisdom of putting them into that environment for just a few years. Might have been better to keep them in state and supplement with private tutors or move to a different state catchment, find a different job etc. Or send them to private if you wish but prepare them for the fact that they might have to move.

However people choose to do it, they need to own their own choices. Starmer is not being remotely hypocritical for not wanting to disrupt his children's education at a time when they are already experiencing a huge amount of disruption to their family lives as a result of their father's new job. Of course he wants to keep things as normal as he possibly can for them, and that has fuck all to do with the VAT policy.

@Hatfullofwillow again talking about lowering standards in private schools, not raising standards in state schools. This is what this policy does, gets people talking about the wrong priorities.

Schools don’t want to know about 6500 new teachers. They want to know what can be done to stop current teachers leaving the profession. And they want to know what the teacher pay rise is going to be and how much will be funded

Of course he is behind the policy, and he has a democratic mandate to implement it.

That has fuck all to do with the choices that he has made for his own children to provide stability for them in a period where they will be experiencing huge changes in their family lives.

Why should his children be punished because other parents have failed to plan properly?

Bright kids do well wherever they are in my experience if they have supportive parents. My DD went to a state school in special measures. Still got a first from a top uni.

I have one who’s left school and one at private 6th form. Our local state school does not offer one of the A levels my dc is doing and also wants to do for a degree (Economics). That’s not a question of a tutoring top up, that’s a question of taking an entire A level out of school.

If only Starmer had put it on the side of a bus like the £350million a day that the NHS is now getting as a result of Brexit this discussion could have been had before an election and the voters vote accordingly.

Lots of children move schools due to parents changing job, family break up, bullying or schools not meeting their needs. Why should private school children be protected.

I didn’t realise that information was out there about his dc

It is hypocritical his new job is no more relevant to whatever other dc will be facing due to his tax hike. Be it SEN or other.

As for planning the extra tax is recent and decisions could have been made a while back. A 20% tax on anything would take people out. It’s just education that gets this reaction, oddly.

I still don’t think you are seeing my point.

My point is that there are alternative sources of money that could be tapped to help state schools. The money does not need to come directly from private parents. It is odd that it should, because they are the only ones who won’t directly benefit.

The electorate seems to have accepted that in order to get extra teachers for state schools, we must tax private schools. My point is this: money for state schools can come from general taxation, from a random tax on holidays, from all sorts of taxation. Even from taking away the nil band on inheritance tax. It’s absolutely false that the money needed for state schools can only come from private parents and that is my point. I believe the electorate has been hoodwinked therefore.

Lots of kids commute for 6th form. You must be very rural if there isn't another school within commuting distance that offers Economics, as it isn't exactly a niche subject. Lucky, then, that in such a remote area that you had a private school available, but your situation cannot be typical as most people have multiple options for 6th form.

But in any cases, A-levels is only 2 years so i presume that you will have seen the VAT increases coming and planned accordingly. If you had been unable to afford the private option, I guess he'd have had to take different A- levels and pick up the Economics at uni level. Like any other kid living in the middle of nowhere whose parents can't afford private education.

“Why should his children be punished because other parents have failed to plan properly?“

Well Keir should have known he was going to win right years ago and had them in a school close to Downing Street!
I mean seeing that you now expect that private school parents should also have known he will win and plan accordingly.

It was a 100 per cent certainty right? Bit like Brexit, we all clearly saw that one coming.

And I believe the reason for hoodwinking the electorate is that the percentage of people who will pay this tax is so small, that the cost to Labour in terms of lost votes over this policy is negligible.

Yes. I really do struggle to understand why people think it's private school parents job to sort out our state schools and pay extra tax to do so. Despite the fact they removed their children from the school and in theory aren't using the place they pay for. It's 'us and them' politics where a group is chosen, demonised, and everyone follows suit without actually thinking about it critically. Brexit being a great example. Let's demonise immigrants, make all our problems their fault and vote to leave the EU. Now everyone is riled up to hate private school parents, make the issue of state schools their problem and charge them to make things better. And like sheep everyone nods and follows suit.

The tax has been Labour Party policy for several years. It was always a possibility that they would get elected. Maybe some gambled on the hope that they wouldn't. You win some, you lose some.

Yes, I have planned accordingly. Scholarship and prepayment of fees. Yes I'm rural and I commute.

They don’t want to see your point.

They don’t actually care where the money to help state schools comes from. They don’t even care whether state schools get any help.

They are just glad that private school kids are punished. That’s it. Nothing else.

If people actually cared about helping state schools, that’s what that would be talking about. The topics you proposed would have been picked up and debated. But they are not. You are shouting into the void.

Given your DC is already at a private 6th form and the policy has yet to put into practice, it is likely that your DC will have left before it is.

You make a good point. I think it’s the emotive reaction that some get at other children having to move. They should have planned etc they lose out.

Not a certainty, of course. But a distinct possibility. If you chose to cross your fingers and hope for the best, that's on you.

As for Keir needing to have planned better? Why? His kids are not the ones that are having to move? Why does it matter if their school isn't near Downing Street? What difference does it make to anyone?

Good, that's what any sensible parent would have done. That's kind of the point that I'm making.

Even if my dc has left, I still think the policy is wrong. It’s not self interest on my part.

Parents stretch for private for a few reasons including concern over SEN

I don’t get this desire to see dc impacted like this or kicking parents due to not seeing that far ahead

A 20% tax on anything would cause shifts in behaviour. Just when it comes to dc this unsavoury take rears

I actually agree with you that VAT on school fees isn't the only option for raising funds for state schools. I agree with your other suggestions. Where we differ is that I would do those things as well as VAT on school fees, rather than instead of. We need a significant injection of funds for multiple public services, including state education, and we need to get that revenue from multiple different sources.

I think I have it worked out folks.

For a while we had endless threads defending Boris eating cake, to such an extent that one could only conclude that they were being started by those who wanted Boris out.

Similarly I feel sure that these threads about VAT on fees are being started by people who support the policy to keep the inequality perpetuate by private schools in our minds.

Do you mind about inequality between one state school and another then? It’s gargantuan between the best and the worst. I don’t have access to a great state school so I use private.