1st choice 2nd choice query...

[mummyrolling2014]

Hi,
We live in an area with very good high schools. Most are outstanding and have a good reputation. Despite that, I am thinking of applying DS for a select school that requires the 11+ test. Thing is this school is 11miles away (30 min drive or over an hour on public transport). I am totally realistic that he might not pass, or pass but not high enough or high enough but not get in as we live too far. The 2 local high schools are a 5/15 minute walk where most of their friends will go. My question is on the basis of the logistics of getting to the selective school, should I even bother? And would I be then affecting the chances of 2nd/3rd choice local schools if by any chance he got into 1st choice and we decided last minute it wouldn't work?

On your second question - yes, you are, if those local schools are then full and you will have to go on the waiting list. If you are close a place may come up if distance is high on the admissions criteria but the closer you are to September, the more likely is he will have to start where there is a place and then you will be waiting until a place is available.

Your first q is a matter for you and your family. I wouldn’t do it myself if the local options are good but that’s me. The one thing you can be sure of is that the school isn’t going to move, and assuming you aren’t either, decide NOW whether the journey is a dealbreaker or not: assume he has got in, and think about it. Don’t waste time and brainpower and your chances of getting a space in the local school of your choice thinking you might get a place and then change your minds.

Answering your last query first...

When you are allocated a sxhool on 1st March, it will be the highest one out of all your listed preferences which ranks your DS high enough against its oversubscription criteria to be able to offer. All your lower preferences disappear.

If those lower preference schools are oversubscribed, then it is unlikely that a place will be available, should you make a late change of preference. Your DS will join the waiting list in the correct position according to the oversubscription criteria; you may be lucky and find that he I at or near the top and a place comes up for him, but there is no guarantee.

As to whether the journey is worth it for a place at the selective school, only you can really judge that - is it a straightforward hour by public transport, or more than one change and with a significant walk, for example? Looking at the dfe site, how do high prior attainment fare at the local non-selective schools? etc.

Thank you for your replies. Gave me alot to think about.
I think I will do a few trial runs to the school and see how long it actually is. It is a bit of a treck and obviously I can drive them every day. So they would need to either change once and walk half an hour or change twice or three times even to walk then 10 mins. Also if they have after school clubs and then an evening sport locally I realise the journey eats into a lot of their spare time. (I should have thought about this a lot more admittedly!) The select school has higher attainment, 83% in maths and English grade 5 or above compared to 55% and 63% for the two local schools. Though I guess you could say of course the select school has when it takes all the brightest children!. All schools however have a progress of 'well above average.'

What does DS want to do? If he really wants to go to a school his friends are going to and it's outstanding do that. Can't he go to open days and see all three and decide which one be likes best?

Also yes you need to decide on logistics before applying because if you decide afterwards that it'll be too difficult then yes you are risking your chances of getting into one of the other 2 schools

Don't do it. Think about matches, rehearsals, clubs. Think about his social life as he gets older. Think about all that time out of a busy life spent on travel.

Okay, re the journey, a half hour walk as part of it would put me off - when you try it out, please try it with a full backpack, sports kit etc, which is what your DS will have to do. That being said, where we live, we are about a mile from two of our four local grammar schools, the railway station is five minutes down the hill in the opposite direction and there are still plenty of parents in 'Metropolitan Essex' happy to inflict that on their DC for the sake of a GS place (with no public transport option from station to school except to go two stops further and catch a bus back, iyswim).

Re the apparent discrepancy in decent grades at GCSE, you really do have to compare like with like- so the achievement of high prior attainment pupils at the comprehensive schools, not the 'headline' figures, with the Selective school.

Thank you. Yes he does currently want to go to one of the local schools all his friends are going to, though from what I hear kids are rarely put in with their old school friends in classes and always make new friends quite early on. We will definitely go and see all the schools and see what he thinks.

Yes this is totally on my mind too! He would have to really love the school to justify all the travel

@MarchingFrogs I can just imagine his confused face and grunt if I made him do a trial walk to the school, lol! Though actually it's good point. I am asking myself whilst reading all this 'why am I even considering this?' And as I write all the reasons to go just seem to be disappearing. However, considering what you said about the parents in metropolitan Essex, yes it is crazy but then obviously parents send their kids to schools further away all the time, so should I too? Argh, I'm just confusing myself all the time. Btw DH is really against them going to the school and wants them to stay local. He doesn't have an interest much in the detail, and I have to literally beg him to come to open days, so maybe that's why I don't consider his opinion that strong on this as I've always had to deal with school choices.

I wish I could live in an area with outstanding schools, why would you even contemplate choosing a school 11 miles away, I am not sure. To answer your questions, I think logistics will be tricky and your child won’t have local friends to hang out with, which at that age becomes Very Important. Good luck whatever you decide.

Thank you. I was just talking with another mum today who said that one of her friends child lives far from school and doesn't have that experience of walking home with friends or popping to a friends house for a bit after school, because most from the school all live in different surrounding areas. I know it must sound like I'm whining (first world problems), I just think the 11+ grammar/select schools pressure from some mums I have met has made me feel like I am doing something wrong if I don't try. The past few days has made me think a hell of a lot about the difficult logistics of this all, so grateful for all this feedback.

Getting into selective schools is a lot of work. Before ours tried for it, we sat him down and asked if he really wanted it and really wanted to put the work in.

If your DS is not interested in going, I can’t see him sitting down with Bond books or whatever for a few months to work up to the exam (when is the exam, September?)

You should (but check) get the outline exam result before the application deadline so if he is nowhere near the pass mark, you don’t waste a space putting it down.

But honestly - he would need to be super keen to give it a go, to outweigh the travel etc that he would have to do to make it work for 7 years. It isn’t your sole decision.

Being able to walk to school adds so much to quality of life, IME. Friends who live near by, not spending 10 Hours a week travelling. At the selective he would leave in the dark and get home on the dark through the winter.

And for what? In a well run comprehensive with good progress scores and a critical mass of the same ability students there is no research that shows that statistically he would do better than at a selective school.

But yes, if you put the selective first in your list and are allocated a place you would need to go on the waiting list for 2nd and 3rd preferences if you change your mind because they will have allocated all the places at those schools (unless they are undersubscribed) .

They don’t hold a place in reserve for you in case you decide not to take your first preference. Waiting lists are held in order of how you meet the criteria.

Thank you. I haven't really told them properly about the choices as didn't want to stress them and thought to just sit the paper, see how they do and whether they pass or not then would apply. So then if they didn't pass it wouldn't be a big deal. But you are right, maybe good to see how they would feel about this. I never wanted it to be an obvious thing for them. Because they have had tutoring for only 6 months I said 'oh in September you will be able to sit a test which is part of your tutoring to see how you're progressing'. They seemed quite ok with it. Not sure if this is the right approach!

Gosh I didn't think about winter 🤦‍♀️. It would be a huge change for them and really weighing the pros and cons of this. It's not looking great tbh, feeling like I haven't thought this through at all logistically and just thinking of the education aspect. There is so much more to consider. I guess it's because I know some kids do travel on the train to get to certain schools and felt if they can do it why can't mine?

So they would need to either change once and walk half an hour or change twice or three times even to walk then 10 mins.

I think that’s a bit mad tbh.

If you can afford to have tutoring for this test in the autumn can you not also afford tutoring for him at a local school if it turns out he needs it? And there are plenty of online resources.

Hi @mummyrolling2014 I went to a selective school (in an area that is fully selective, so no choice of local comprehensives, just the grim sec mod for those who didn't pass) - my commute was only about 45 mins (walk/bus/walk) but then so many of my friends lived miles in the other direction. It was not at all great, socially. So from that PoV I would advise against the selective school for your DC.

Another anecdote - someone I know got allocated a place at a very popular school not that far from me - a 15-min bus ride - BUT the walk to the (only possible) bus stop is a good 20 mins from where I live; and this person lived at least 20 mins further. So a walk to the bus stop of at least 40 mins. I observed as much to her and her face fell - she clearly hadn't considered that at all. I mean 40 mins walk is not impossible, but with a wait for a bus, bus ride and then another 5 mins walk, they would have needed to leave the house at about 7.15 to be sure of getting to school by 8.25. My point is I guess, consider the child's commute and how manageable it will be.

And yy think about the overladen days; I recall happening to walk towards my DCs' school as DS2, a tiny year 7, was on his way home once - he was carrying his bag, a PE kit, his trumpet and for some reason a tennis racket. Luckily we live less than 5 mins away.

“Because they have had tutoring for only 6 months I said 'oh in September you will be able to sit a test which is part of your tutoring to see how you're progressing'”

But come sept it will be obvious that it is a school test, at the school? They are probably picturing the tutor whacking out a paper one session.

Thank you for all your replies. I know all the logistics suggest this isn't a good idea. I don't know why I feel guilty, I think it's all this pressure of the 11+ coming up and everyone asking if their kids are doing it. You end up feeling you're not doing the best for your child if you don't. I know some kids will be revising all summer and feel like am I a bad parent for not trying. Like I'm choosing that pressure over the logistics and reality.

I think the school mum talk is best ignored sometimes. If he wants to go to one of the local schools, and you like it when you see it, go for that. Supportive parents make all the difference and if he understands the importance of applying himself, and talking through any problems he might have, I think he’ll do just as well at the closer school, with the advantage of having a better social life.