State or private if you were us

[WilliamsHill]

Approx £10k per month combined post tax income
No mortgage (but not huge savings due to paying off mortgage)
One child in year 3
Central London

Choice between

1. Outstanding local state secondary school which is single sex. Within walking distance. Primary friends likely to go there.
2. Excellent single sex independent school. Within walking distance. One friend possibly going there. School is through to 18. Approx £30k PA plus the threat of VAT.

We could move child to the independent Sept 2025 (assuming passes assessment) or stick with the state primary and secondary option.

Independant option obviously comes with all the usual benefits - extracurriculars, smaller classes etc etc. Both options get incredible GCSE and A Level results - well above state average.

What would you do?

Is this Grey Coat Hospital vs Westminster?

If I had a a state school that good on my doorstep it would be a no brainer - amazing results, esp given the proportion of children from disadvantaged families on free school meals!

It depends on your child’s personality. If she is outgoing, sociable and socially resilient then 100% for the state and be ETERNALLY grateful you have an outstanding single sex option. You are very very lucky indeed.

If your child is very meek, maybe less resilient or outgoing AND the private school has a particular reputation for pastoral care and supporting quieter children, then maybe consider it. But then plenty of indies are quite full on too, especially the queen Bee ones.

Bear in mind that in theory you can switch back to state for sixth form but that option goes out the window if your child falls in love with niche subjects, especially languages (Mandarin, Arabic, German) and wants to pursue them for a-levels, because then you are stuck in private [stares at own two children].

In your position I would snap up that state school. It’s exactly what we have to pay for here in our medium sized town with no single sex state, and only one oversubscribed outstanding in the world’s most expensive catchment.

By the way, our private school is SUBSTANTIALLY more ethnically diverse than the state schools in my town. Many languages spoken at home etc., which has actively pushed both of my daughters towards language study.

Option 1 (although I would avoid single sex if possible)
Our DC went Private for Secondary but only because the State provision is bad, if we had had a good State Option like you they would have gone there instead.
Why pay for something when you can get the same/similar for free?

With those results - State for sure.

No need to go private. You can always reassess at year 7 but I doubt that state is going to go downhill in that time.

Probably state (have two dc in private), but I'd sit the entrance test too as they do often give you good feedback. Sometimes!

I'm fairly sure a lot of private school paying parents pay a huge amount of income tax too

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make about tax @daniburg.

I'd do state for secondary. Give it a year and see how it is going and know that private is an option.

Save the money for child's uni or first car or house deposit.

From your message, it sounds as though you have very good options close by which makes this trickier to make the choice.

Bear in mind the £30k per annum will soon be £37.5k (VAT @ 20% plus 5% - normal minimum from my experience, though we did have one year of 11%). If you assume a 5% rise each year, from Y4 that looks like this:

Year Total Mth
4 £ 37,800 £ 3,150 (assumed 5% rise plus VAT)
5 £ 39,690 £ 3,308
6 £ 41,675 £ 3,473
7 £ 43,758 £ 3,647
8 £ 45,946 £ 3,829
9 £ 48,243 £ 4,020
10 £ 50,656 £ 4,221
11 £ 53,188 £ 4,432
12 £ 55,848 £ 4,654
13 £ 58,640 £ 4,887
Total: £ 475,444
Plus a couple of thousand minimum a year on incidentals (trips etc.)

You don't say how old you are (I'm assuming not too old), whether you plan on having more children or whether you're primarily reliant on one salary/ what the risk profile of your employment is/ future prospects.

I guess the thing I would say, is think hard about whether this is sustainable long term, esp if another child may be a possibility.

As others have said, it may be possible to take entrance exams to resolve the question one way or the other now, or another approach may be to save the amount above each month for a couple of years and look at the real life impact of that on your lifestyle/ family with a view to entering later (Y7 would be typical).

That would also give you a safety net if things did go wrong in the future to ensure you had fees to hand for a year or two if you're planning on funding from cashflow (as you seem to be).

We had a different challenge locally in that state provision isn't good post primary (state primary head actually recommended private for our eldest!) but in retrospect, I would have not sent the youngest to prep as soon as we did. It's made things hard and very reliant on me to keep earning at a sufficient level (which is looking a bit ropey now, though I would guess I'm older than you and we do still have a mortgage).

No more children planned and incomes are pretty secure. We have run the figures and the total cost including annual rises and VAT is eye-watering.

Why do people who have never set foot in a private school let alone one of the more well known ones spout such nonsense about diversity! I went to a state school and very uninspiring it was too.

My children were weekly boarders from 13 and our house at times was like the United Nations with boys from all cultures. One boy was on afull busary and the boys didnt care - he was just a good egg and nice to be around.

And thank you - I pay enough tax to not be dictated to by someone who thinks I should pay more. 30% of the tax income is paid by 1% of the tax payers.

With regards to Diversity at Private I can't speak for London but here in Yorkshire while of course there is a certain level of Income/wealth to be able to afford our DCs school it goes from Landed very wealthy farming familes through to successful entrepreneurs and sports people to 2 professional incomes, Business Owners and Teachers kids too.
Ethnically there is HUGE diversity too - DS has friends from many ethnicities from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Ukraine and many more. His Private Secondary is much more ethnically diverse than his State Primary.

Yes, but you said Both options get incredible GCSE and A Level results - well above state average.

And extra curriculars are always available to parents with the means, as you are paying now.

Yes, but these things are not exclusive. The teacher retention and recruitment problem is only getting worse. I know labour have promised more teachers but until they fix the awful working conditions in most schools, this isn’t going to happen. I know the private school has very good retention, but I’m less sure about the state school.

I am not from the UK, but looking from the outside, it seems to me that what really makes a difference to how people navigate job market and gain security is financial help when buying a flat. Save £100-150k for her so she can buy a flat soon after Uni and use remaining money for tutoring, trips, skiing etc.
Or have those money ready for her so she can take unpaid or not very well paid internships during University holidays. Don't exhaust yourself financially since your money can make a bigger difference on her quality of life if spent a bit later.

If the state school is really good then I don't think whatever additional value you're getting from the private will be worth almost £500k price tag (and remember there are other costs like trips etc.).

Central London state schools aren’t the best. You don’t seem to lack funds, so private.

@CreateUserNames that's simply just not true. There's a paper called 'the London effect' where it shows London schools producing increased progess and outcomes for its students, particularly disadvantaged ones vs the rest of the country.

Of course there will be some failing schools in London, but OP's state school seems to be thriving and a valid option to consider. In fact, if OP's local state secondary was failing / dire, then her decision to go private would be a relatively easy one.

Grey coat vs FHSS alike school? Ofc FHSS every time, if you can afford it.

Paying private or paying housing deposit are just different way to make your child live in a bubble. One before she becomes adult the other after.

Children get into the most competitive schools in the country from state schools in quite large numbers every single year.

Have you asked the private school what percentage of children come from state schools into Y7? You might be surprised.

In your shoes, I would wait for the natural transfer point at 11+ personally.

Also, I'm guessing it isn't one of the super competitive schools because I don't think any of them are all through. So in all likelihood your daughter will be fine with the 11+, perhaps with a bit of tutoring or work at home to familiarise her with the process and technique of taking an exam.

There are a lot of parents here with children at London private schools so if you are able to say which school or schools you are considering there may be people who have been through the process and can help a bit. And there is usually a London 11+ thread each year for help and support so if you don't want to say which schools, you can do a search and see if there is any useful info there.

You won’t find any secondary private school in this country where more than 30% of the students come from the state sector.

I disagree on extra curricular activities, yes you can pay for ballet, swimming and piano but most extra curricular activities that are offered at my local private schools are not easily available (eg debating) for payment. IMO there is never a better investment than education.

If 54% of the pupils are getting GCSEs at the 9-7 level then that isn't just an outstanding state school, it's one of the very best comprehensive schools in the country (eg Cardinal Vaughan, Grey Coat Hospital). Almost all state schools with better GCSE results are themselves selective. But I'm assuming you're not in London or you'd be considering a wider range of private schools, including ones with better results.

If you're lucky enough to be mortgage free in the catchment area of this fantastic comprehensive school then unless there's something else about it that you really dislike (I went to look round Cardinal Vaughan, local to me, and hated the feeling of hellfire and brimstone discipline) I'd be congratulating yourself on having this sorted!

I'd speak to some parents of children already at both schools and see what their experience has been. Thats how we discovered our local outstanding secondary issues early lunch passes for the smallest children to try to keep them safe from violence by the bigger ones and that year 7 and 8 didn't have a permenant maths teacher. Not a single person described their child as happy but used phrases like 'managing okay' which just seemed quite sad. Our decision for school was based on the environment where our child would be happiest not the results.