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Education

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Non attendance

20 replies

RemiMartin · 04/07/2024 08:33

Wrote to the school giving 3 months notice that I’d like to take my granddaughter to a family wedding in September (she is 5 and going into yr 1) the wedding will mean she will miss just 3 days. I was a little shocked that the response was that they will not be authorising it and we will be fined.
Her attendance aside from sick days is excellent and hasn’t been late for school ever! I almost wish I had just lied and took her out and just called her in sick for 3 days!

Is it worth trying to arrange to see the headmaster and putting an argument in that the trip will also be educational as we intend on visiting the national park while we are there?
Next time I won’t be so honest.

OP posts:
Lottie1234569 · 04/07/2024 08:35

Everyone knows you have to lie to do this. Just call in sick.

Bluevelvetsofa · 04/07/2024 09:22

The head can’t authorise it. Schools aren’t responsible for the policy, but they have to enforce it. I doubt there will be a fine for three days; it has been, as far as I know, ten sessions, which is five days.

If you lie, do you think your granddaughter will keep quiet about where she’s been?

TeenDivided · 05/07/2024 07:03

I'm surprised at them fining after 3 days. Does it say 'will' be fined or 'may' be fined'?

However I'm not surprised it will be unauthorised. I'd only expect authorisation for a parent, and then only one day.

tennissquare · 05/07/2024 08:19

There is new guidance coming in September nationally. The fine will be £80 per carer/parent.

prh47bridge · 05/07/2024 09:59

Bluevelvetsofa · 04/07/2024 09:22

The head can’t authorise it. Schools aren’t responsible for the policy, but they have to enforce it. I doubt there will be a fine for three days; it has been, as far as I know, ten sessions, which is five days.

If you lie, do you think your granddaughter will keep quiet about where she’s been?

The head can authorise it. The decision as to whether an absence is authorised is entirely up to the school. Having said that, most schools will not authorise absence for a family wedding unless it is one of the child's parents getting marred.

MargaretThursday · 05/07/2024 20:30

They're not allowed to authorise it.
Don't claim it will be educational. That isn't why you're going, so it's irrelevant.

However I also notice you said you were telling them your granddaughter was going with you. Do you have parental responsibility, because if you don't then it does need to come from the parents.

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 00:05

MargaretThursday · 05/07/2024 20:30

They're not allowed to authorise it.
Don't claim it will be educational. That isn't why you're going, so it's irrelevant.

However I also notice you said you were telling them your granddaughter was going with you. Do you have parental responsibility, because if you don't then it does need to come from the parents.

They are allowed to authorise it. They won't in this case, but it is entirely up to the head to decide whether to authorise an absence.

fashionqueen0123 · 06/07/2024 00:06

Fines are for five days. You’re only going for three.

Quitelikeacatslife · 06/07/2024 00:12

Fines are for 3 days now but schools can authorise 1 day for family wedding so you'd fall under that. But they are very limited what they can authorise, and the school doesn't fine (or get the money) the la does

HcbSS · 06/07/2024 00:16

Why does she need 3 days? Is the wedding mid week and requiring extensive travel?

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 00:19

Quitelikeacatslife · 06/07/2024 00:12

Fines are for 3 days now but schools can authorise 1 day for family wedding so you'd fall under that. But they are very limited what they can authorise, and the school doesn't fine (or get the money) the la does

Most of this is wrong.

The new framework doesn't come in until August. When it does, all schools will be required to consider a fine for unauthorised absence of 10 or more sessions (5 days), not 3. Note that they are only required to consider a fine. They have the discretion to decide whether or not to actually fine.

Schools are not limited in what they can authorise. There is no rule that says they can authorise one day for a family wedding. It is entirely up to the school what absences it authorises. There are no rules they have to follow.

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 08:32

To add, the number of days absence that can trigger a fine is currently up to the LA, so it varies depending on where you are. There is at least one that will fine for a single day's unauthorised absence. Most won't fine for less than 5 days absence unless there have been other unauthorised absences.

I can understand why many parents think schools aren't allowed to authorise absence. Many heads promote the myth that they have no discretion, and that there are rules they must follow. The law, however, states that absence can be authorised if, "the proprietor, or a person authorised by the proprietor... considers that leave of absence should be granted due to the exceptional circumstances relating to that application." That's it. The regulations do not contain any definitive list as to what qualifies as exceptional circumstances, nor has the government issued any such list. The proprietor for a state school is the governors, so the head is the person authorised by the proprietor. It is therefore entirely up to the head to decide what qualifies as exceptional circumstances and will therefore lead to absence being authorised.

Some heads take a hard line on this and refuse to authorise any absence. A few take a very relaxed approach and authorise almost anything, although they risk the wrath of Ofsted if the attendance figures are poor as a result. Many look at each case individually, as the regulations intend. There is, I believe, guidance,
from some unions on what should be regarded as exceptional circumstances, and some websites aimed at teachers also offer guidance, but this guidance is not official and is not in any way binding.

Spendonsend · 06/07/2024 08:39

There is guidance around what would be considered an exceptional circumstance. I haven't read it in a while but it says something about holidays wouldn't be.
I wouldnt bother arguing about educational value of the trip.
You may be able to argue for the day of the wedding and a realistic travel time.

worstofbothworlds · 06/07/2024 08:56

My DS was authorised for a skiing trip (I can't take leave at half term) and my DD for three months either end of the summer holiday (I was on a work fellowship abroad and she went to summer camp and then to school).
But I think the school are unusually understanding.

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 12:12

Spendonsend · 06/07/2024 08:39

There is guidance around what would be considered an exceptional circumstance. I haven't read it in a while but it says something about holidays wouldn't be.
I wouldnt bother arguing about educational value of the trip.
You may be able to argue for the day of the wedding and a realistic travel time.

Some LAs have issued guidance, but this is not binding on head teachers. Similarly, at least one teaching union has issued guidance and I am aware of guidance on at least one website aimed at teachers. However, the government has not issued any guidance. None of the guidance from third parties (including LAs) has any legal force. Heads are free to ignore it if they wish.

Quitelikeacatslife · 06/07/2024 12:19

I can't requote my post but I can assure you it is correct for the school where I work

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 12:28

Quitelikeacatslife · 06/07/2024 12:19

I can't requote my post but I can assure you it is correct for the school where I work

It may be, but that doesn't mean it applies to OP's case. It is unlikely her granddaughter attends your school. If I knew which school (or at least which LA) was involved I would provide detailed advice. As it is, the only appropriate advice is to explain the national situation, which I have done.

Spendonsend · 06/07/2024 13:51

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 12:12

Some LAs have issued guidance, but this is not binding on head teachers. Similarly, at least one teaching union has issued guidance and I am aware of guidance on at least one website aimed at teachers. However, the government has not issued any guidance. None of the guidance from third parties (including LAs) has any legal force. Heads are free to ignore it if they wish.

In the guidance 'working together to improve school attendance" it states "it is unlikely a family holiday would be an exceptional curcumstance'

CremeEggThief · 06/07/2024 13:55

As you say, it is your own fault for being honest about it.

You should have just lied like everyone else would have and I'm saying that as a former primary teacher myself.

prh47bridge · 06/07/2024 16:25

Spendonsend · 06/07/2024 13:51

In the guidance 'working together to improve school attendance" it states "it is unlikely a family holiday would be an exceptional curcumstance'

This is indeed true. However, that is the only guidance it gives and, as it is non-statutory guidance, it is not binding on head teachers.

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