Labour to reduce number of Grammar/Selective school places?

[Another76543]

This thread is not about private schools. It’s about the Labour Party’s dislike of state grammar/selective schools. Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, has, in recent years, stated that she wants fewer children in selective schools, and more in comprehensive education. Angela Rayner has also expressed her dislike of the grammar system.

Does this mean that, under Labour, the number of selective places will be reduced? Will parents have less choice over the type of education their children receive?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=OW21Tu38Txo

@SergeyB - ok name the schools.

Do you mean Rachel Reeves who went to Cator Park? Her parents were teachers and surely plugged the gaps. So because her parents decided not to send her to Newstead or one of the grammars in Bexley we should close all grammars?! I thought her parents got divorced and wanted her half way between their houses for logistical reasons.

:I've known several girls who got places at Henrietta Barnett. In terms of ability, which for me is the speed at which they learn new concepts, they're not slouches but, in aggregate, they're not really special. What unifies them is the amount of work they did in preparation for the exams, particularly the first round. As they were 7-10 year old girls during this preparation, I think it's fair to say that it was mostly a function of their parents, not so much the girls.

This is the first time I've ever heard having pushy parents described as a 'special educational need'.”

@user149799568 - surely the vast majority of these girls will be at least top 10% (top 3 in your average state primary class) - which used to be the G&T definition. In reality, many of these girls are in the top 5% and a fair few in the top 2%. The CAT tests of each school would give further information.

There is supporting evidence for the contrary, although it doesn’t specifically address this particular group of schools. The PP continues to overlook this evidence, dismissing it for being outdated or for various other reasons.

bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.3929

because her parents decided not to send her to Newstead or one of the grammars in Bexley we should close all grammars

I have clearly outlined my rationale and reasons for abolishing the 11-plus selection. And clearly, these reasons differ from the ones you mentioned.

@SergeyB - there is a clear line in education between pre pandemic and post pandemic. And I think it is important that all education policy focuses on that huge issue and the impact it has had. That is all I am saying.

What defines the clear boundary? Why not also bring up the living crisis, Brexit, and other issues to discredit the research findings?

For me, a vast majority in top 10% in my definition of ability sounds plausible but, as I said, I don't regard it as particularly unusual or different. The majority of kids in these schools turn out to be very efficient grinders, very good at regurgitating material which has been fed to them.

“The majority of kids in these schools turn out to be very efficient grinders, very good at regurgitating material which has been fed to them.“

That pretty much sums up the GCSE system for me.

"Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome" - Charlie Munger

Therefore, the parents believe these children have special needs and that the government should allocate more resources to help these students cram exams?

@SergeyB - are you really going to deny the seismic effect of the pandemic on Education? I thought the consensus is the pandemic will have negative repercussions into the 2030s. So the question is about how to mitigate those negative effects. And not to go backwards in PISA and to manage wellbeing and SEN, poor behaviour, disengagement (pupil/parental) and screen addiction.
The most urgent question is therefore definitely not grammar schools or private schools.

Grammar schools contribute to the accumulation of some of the issues you’ve highlighted, before or after the pandemic.

So where is the post pandemic large cohort study then?

In fact, I am really looking forward to a study blaming private and grammar schools for the pandemic fallout in education. Open access by any chance?

The study I referenced was conducted in 2023. Naturally, tracking students from secondary school to university takes time. However, there have been no fundamental changes in school types or admission settings, which relates to the context of the research finding. Even when there is one refresh research conducted and results don’t align with your expectations, you would question the absence of a large, post-conservative cohort study next?

only the percentage of well-behaved kids who happened to pass the 11-plus exam deserve the opportunity.

Yes, that's literally what an admissions test is for.

The rest are left to use the leftover , and rightly so, like in a Hunger Games scenario?

Then fight for comps to be better funded and resourced so that they can manage behaviour properly and teach as best as they can.

As for the boys who cornered me and groped my vulva, I'd say that them ending up in a sink school is a "them problem". They were in top year of primary, old enough to stand trial and old enough to know right from wrong. The way they laughed when I froze, they knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong. It would have been an act of profound cruelty to send me to the same comp as them.

And what is the Government going to do for these children between ages 11-16 support their additional learning needs?

About as much as they did for this G&T child at primary school, I'd say.

A grammar school is basically a G&T programme for an entire school. I do not understand why people object to this.

There are many high-performing sixth forms that the government has invested in for gifted students.

The question was about 11-16 education for these students. Not 6th form.

social segregation has been extremely bad between grammar schools and non-grammar schools in that area.

What is "social segregation" in this context? Because if it means that the kids from different schools don't mix, that was the whole point of me applying. I didn't want to mix with the scrotes who molested and beat me. As a young adult, I came across one in the street and he called out to me and gloated how he'd used to beat me up. Over a decade after I'd left primary, he verbally abused me and I was shaking flashing back to that school yard. Another of the little scrotes is doing time for murder.

I've since moved out of the area.

What I have described is the reality of being a studious G&T autistic girl living in one of the 20% most deprived areas of the UK. Grammar school gave me an escape to somewhere where kids like me were valued not scorned. I will fight every step of the way to stop you from taking that chance to escape from other kids.

A GT program differs from a grammar school, which selects students based on an entrance exam taken at age 10.

Many countries implement GT programs within comprehensive school settings:

These programs are tailored for students with exceptional intellectual abilities or talents in areas like music, art, or sports, rather than focusing primarily on academics or exam camp. They can be integrated into any type of school and aim to provide advanced learning opportunities and resources to help these students achieve their full potential.

I agree with this.

Every school should be made to be safe and fit for purpose. Until that is achieved, retention of grammar schools is the hill I will die on.

I will fight every step of the way to stop you from taking that chance to escape from other kids.

And the chance is only to those who can pass the exam in age 10.

The scrotes who beat me couldn't have passed wind without help, never mind the 11+. The 11+ was effective at keeping them away from the boys at the nearby boys's grammar.

Comprehensive schools can offer those opportunities. What kind of gifted programs and special needs support can only be exclusively found in grammar schools, and not participate 11 plus exam will not getting those opportunities? A medal for the pushy parents?

No such programmes in our local comps. You have to accept that there is wide inequality across the state comp sector. Some are amazing, others are poor. Great if you live near an amazing one but tough luck if you live near a poor one. That's why parents choose grammar/private.
Making every school a comp only works if those comps are amazing, many aren't.