Grammar appeal decision making and voting

[Softandgentle1]

Hi, I have question for anyone who has formed part of an appeals panel. I know that the panel cannot make decisions about which appeals they uphold until they have listened to all individual cases. However, how, in reality, does this work? Surely if there are, say 40 appeals, by the end of the 3rd or 4th day of hearing them all, the panel will have forgotten the finer details of the first cases they listened to? Is each panel member advised to record their personal decision after each case (but not discuss it) ready to then put forward their vote at the end? Is there any sort of discussion after each case at all?

Panel members take notes, and have these and the appeal paperwork with them when making the decisions. They are also allowed to ask the clerk (who will have very detailed notes) to remind them of details

Thanks. It just seems like an odd system, particularly if they are not allowed to compare cases initially. So to be clear, ours is for under-qualification, not over-subscription. We know the school isn’t full, they have 35 spaces (said at stage 1 they could to go over PAN by 25 and were undersubscribed by 10) and there are 39 appeals. So unlikely there will be too many appeals upheld than spaces. It seems to make more sense if the panel have some idea how they will vote by the time they come back together at the end to make decisions on them all. Otherwise it must end up so time-consuming for the clerk to have to recap and reread out details of every case that were already covered during each individual’s hearing, and also by waiting until the end to cast any sort of vote, even if it’s privately, I would have thought the panel would unconsciously end up comparing, even if unintentional 🤔

I have previously been a panel member and chair, though not for grammar appeals. I always made notes when I got the papers beforehand, discussed any difficult or unusual issues in advance with panel members to inform our questions and made notes throughout.

If an appeal has any merit it will be discussed at some length. However more often than not, parents simply do not present much of a case. The panel does their best to tease out the issues sometimes without much success.

You don’t compare cases as such but judge each one against the admissions criteria, it’s not really so difficult when you do it. Yes you do make a provisional decision in your head at least. If I was chairing I would normally go through them all at the end and summarise the arguments briefly asking my fellow panellists their view, the clerk would also give their view on certain matters. Then a discussion would take place. This may be very short if it was a weak case, longer for more complex. The clerk would note down the decision and the reason for it for her/his letter.

Believe me it was always a good day when I could uphold appeals!

Individual panel members may have a few "definite yes" and "definite no" in mind as they go along, but for the vast majority, the discussion between panel members at the end is where decisions are made. Decision making sessions can take up to about half a day for schools where there are a lot of appeals

That’s really helpful stuff, thank you ☺️ I felt my presentation was strong, I was really happy with how I answered the questions. I’m assuming that in a way, under qualification is a more clear-cut appeal to decide upon than oversubscription because either the academic evidence is there, or it isn’t. I know there are also some objective issues with oversubscription such as distance from school, sibling etc but balancing the arguments must be more of a subjective process which does require discussion between panel members.

It’s good to know that panel members do have the desire to uphold appeals. You never know what the motivation is of these volunteers to be on a panel! I’m sure not in your case, @Zeeze but the fastidious, self-important retired parish councillor type springs to mind when I think of what the general make-up of the panels might be! Would you say @Zeeze generally, that panel members do want to uphold appeals if they possibly can?

@Softandgentle1

Yes! I have heard of panellists who see it as a win if no appeal succeeds but I was always really happy when we were able to uphold one and my colleagues were too. It made it seem the process was worthwhile
and it was depressing if none made it through. Infant class size appeals could almost never succeed but occasionally you would get one.

Some parents put up a great argument even if a case seemed weak on paper and I still remember some from years ago and wonder how their kids’ live panned out.

Apart from school governors, many panellists were retired people including barristers, solicitors, business people, magistrates, but a few more ordinary younger (at the time) folk (including me). Most were women.

I also liked to give head teachers/admission authorities a hard time when they deserved it. If I thought an admissions process was very complex or potentially unfair I would say so.

The clerk used to tell us about the irate phone calls she got from headteachers when appeals succeeded!

I know there are also some objective issues with oversubscription such as distance from school, sibling etc
From what I've read io here these issues aren't relevant to an appeal.