Labour confused and arguing among themselves over VAT on school fees

[Another76543]

This policy is getting more ridiculous by the day.

We have the shadow Attorney General who doesn’t understand the basic concept that the VAT position and charitable status are entirely separate issues. She also doesn’t understand that it’s parents and not schools who will pay the charge.

“the question is, is it appropriate in these circumstances for schools, such as in Eton or Winchester or whatever, to be seen as a charity and that, therefore, they should not be paying VAT on the huge fees”

This statement is factually incorrect on two things.

She also seems to think that any money raised will be spent on breakfast for children. The potential money has already been allocated to new teachers. They seem to think they can spend the same money twice.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/emily-thornberry-labour-institute-for-fiscal-studies-education-secretary-winchester-b2559439.html

The Party are also now fighting among themselves over this proposal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/emily-thornberry-bridget-phillipson-labour-david-lynch-london-b2559684.html#

“sign of divisions within Sir Keir Starmer’s party over the policy”

A lot of people intending to use private for secondary are blase about state education - at least, if they live in a nice area with a good school anyway. A lot of people dip in and dip out of each sector to save money. So, I don't think it's strange at all that someone in the highest tax bracket is thinking 'why get ripped off for tax again?'.

I believe they called people "loonies" earlier in the thread. If that's in accordance with talk guidelines then that's worrying!

It's not about what I'm WILLING to do. I am ABLE to support fee rises up to a certain point and then I'll have to make different arrangements. Obviously, that point will come a lot sooner if the government whacks 20% on, making it even harder for the school to meet the payments.

Didn't see that one. Try reporting it.

I'd rather just let people see how aggressive they are in their debating.

He thinks he's doing a great job. 😂

user149799568
To the extent that Labour offers a financial justification for VAT on private education, it's that it might raise £1.7bn

It's gone down - Labour are claiming just over £1.5bn in their manifesto.

@MyNameIsFine

I've not told people to "pay up" I've said that they will probaly pay. I've also seriously questioned people claiming they can't afford the raises, and had it confirmed when several different scenarios were given where they did in fact have room in their budget to afford it.

I've also said that I think, many, many private school parents have no idea of what an average income is, Grace rather proved this by being way out on her idea of what an income in the top 20% was.

I've been goaded, called stupid, that I'm a bad AI bot. I'm not claiming victim status at all but the behaviour of those debating with me has been rather poor, and doesn't show them in a good light.

I do love how you are all trying to gang up on me though.

Rather unbecoming isn't it?

Certainly looks like you said "pay up" to me...

@Grace1980xxx

Fair enough, I apologize.

Firstly I'm not a private school parent. Secondly I just googled what the top 20% is and that was the result I got - frankly I haven't a clue what salary is in what centile- hence why i said "im guessing". I grew up in poverty, have worked hard throughout my life and now I'm a higher earner - so as to the assertion that I'm completely out of touch, it's simply untrue

Fair enough.

@grace1980

However: "And they have a strange view on people who reduce their hours being easily replaceable - that may be true if you're an economics teacher but in my role I'm paid for a particular skill set and not for the hours I work necessarily. I know for a fact that if I reduce my hours they don't bring anyone else in. That's not how it works at this level."

Actualy, Its very hard to get an economics teacher.

But then these nasty backhanded remarks you make directly at me, because you are taking every comment as directed at you, they aren't, but it's not exactly the genteel fair play debate you are making out you have provided

Also, EVERYONE is paid for a particular skill set, but the vast, vast majority of people massively over estimate just how essential they are. You see it in banking, law, advertising, the media, cybersecurity. You may be irreplaceable, most aren't

You said people are replaceable and I simply made the point that it may be true in your profession / experience (you have said / suggested you are an economics teacher) but that's not true across the board. I have worked 4 day and 5 day weeks at different points - they didn't recruit someone else when I reduced my hours - and that is so true of many roles.

"but that's not true across the board."

However, it is broadly true for most. I've known people at the top of the law, finance, advertising professions all think they were irreplaceable, they weren't

@Grace1980xxx

Also, it was a rather snide remark.

What was a snide remark?

I think there are two separate issues - people reducing hours and people stopping work. If they reduce their hours then a lot of employers won't employ someone else.

Maybe in your case.

I've seen people reduce their hours and then someone else is appointed to cover the role on the 5th day.

You most definitely wrote 'your privileges aren't being supported any longer. Pay up.' But, tbf, you've written so many posts now, you probably can't remember yourself what you've written!

@MyNameIsFine

I admitted it, and apologised.

Not seen any apologies come my way from any of you though. Bad AI, Stupid, Thick, feel sorry for your students etc etc.

Sorry. I only saw your apology after I posted.

Was the apology for me, @Aladdinzane for telling me to 'pay up' or to @Grace1980xxx who quoted you saying it after you claimed you hadn't? I certainly didn't attack, belittle or insult you, despite finding your specific and general comments pretty provocative. I do think this has been an unnecessarily toxic and divisive thread, and I believe you set the tone for that, and bear a good measure of responsibility for it.
You make huge generalisations and dismiss any other perspective or experience. This is received as arrogance and hostility, with unfortunate results where people who are already feeling upset, anxious or helpless find themselves being goaded and belittled, and it's true some posters have lost patience and said things that weren't helpful.

I'm worried sick about the proposed tax. I don't have a reasonable alternative in my rural backwatwr, and will have to absorb an additional £15-20k per annum depending on the rate applied. I'm in my mid 50s with not much chance to recover financially but will probably have to raid my pension. I feel a million miles away from the private school parents of your characterisations. Whether intentional or not, the overwhelming message received from your posts is of one who despises us as a group and is rejoicing to see us get our comeuppance. If that's not how you feel, you might be due a period of quiet reflection.

You are so much more articulate than I am. He's probably not thick, and I'm sure he's a great teacher and his parents and pupils appreciate the job he does. However, I'm really not sure he's the one owed an apology!