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21% of pupils are persistently absent! National average is double post COVID

141 replies

FusionChefGeoff · 09/06/2024 11:09

Just read this on the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1ddegp8zvo

It's a stark statistic that nearly a quarter of kids are basically not getting an education. A quarter of our society is being failed before they even reached adulthood.

The article does explore various different reasons that contribute or explain the massive number but I'm shocked at how high it is and what a massive challenge it is to sort it out. I'm definitely going to be listening hard to the politicians take on this issue or is everyone who matters just ignoring it?

I'd break it down into the following categories and I think points 2 and 3 demonstrate why this is such a major problem as they are a 'dammned if you do, damned if you don't' combination.

  • genuine, extreme medical mental health issues which you'd imagine should normally be quite a small number but has been drastically increased by the collapse in our CAHMS service
  • school induced medical health issues due to draconian rules / behaviours management systems
  • school induced mental health issues due to the lack of the above and disruptive behaviour / breakdown of trust / general chaos
  • home induced mental health issues due to family situation eg mental health issues in parents / bereavements / other trauma
  • inherited lack of belief / value in education so parents don't care, kids don't care, don't bother going to school basically neglectful parents
  • manipulative kids using 'mental health' as a way to get out of doing something they don't want to do combined with permissive / poor parenting which allows this behaviour

The biggest thing we have to tackle is why there's such a huge increase in ADHD and autism diagnoses (assuming you can access any kind of assessment of course)....

is it just that we talk more about it?

Is it early access / excessive use of devices that wires our kids all wrong to cope with the world?
Is it a rise in well intentioned but misunderstood 'gentle parenting' ie people doing it wrong and ending up with very permissive / neglectful parenting that again, wires their brains all wrong and removes all resilience?

We can't just keep looking at throwing money and resources the very acute symptoms ie the school refusers without putting the same effort into understanding and FIXING the problems.

I just can't accept a world where a quarter of kids are at such an enormous disadvantage in life before they even leave school it's too sad.

OP posts:
ChefsKisser · 09/06/2024 15:18

maybe we just need to make sure parents value education

This is 99.9% of it I think. In our class there have been kids with health problems or travel term time for various reasons but with motivated parents who helped them catch up and ensure they attend whenever possible. It’s the same kids who are late all the time and tend to be off more often and at primary age it’s predominantly down to the kids. This then feeds into secondary school when the kids are more responsible for getting themselves there. Severe MH problems in children aside the issue is mainly parents.

redskydarknight · 09/06/2024 15:18

Caspianberg · 09/06/2024 13:41

I don’t think 19 days off in a year is that bad or parents not making them go to school.
Ds isn’t at school yet, but for example he’s had a 4 day hospital admission, 3 days separate appointments just since Christmas. He’s also been off nursery various times ill, at least 2-3 days at a time. He’s started a fever, and wheezy breathing last night so ill on the sofa right now feeling miserable with himself, I definitely won’t send him into nursery tomorrow as he hasn’t slept and is ill. He was also off 3 days last month for overseas wedding.

He no doubt had 20+ days off since September. At his nursery parents appointment around Easter he’s ahead or at level for everything expected for his age, so doesn’t seem to have made any difference

Nursery is rather different from school. It's not compulsory in the same way that school is. Plus children (unless they have a long term medical condition) tend to get ill more frequently in the early years.
My DS had more time off when he was in nursery than he did in his entire time at school.

Ereyraa · 09/06/2024 15:22

Arlott · 09/06/2024 13:44

If people miss 20% of time at private schools they won’t do well either.

People don’t tend to miss things they’re paying for.

There are virtually no attendance issues in DC’s independent school, as PP has said.

Caspianberg · 09/06/2024 15:24

@redskydarknight - it is compulsory the last year where I live. School starts sept after 6th birthday, but it’s compulsory to attend kindergarten/ nursery the September after 5th birthday.

So does a 4/5/6 year old really miss vital education having some days off when many worldwide aren’t actually at school then? I mean Ds is at kindergarten with some who will turn 7 in September/ October time, and they haven’t started education yet.

itsnotyouagain · 09/06/2024 15:25

stayathomer · 09/06/2024 14:52

I say all the above from a primary school perspective. If parents don't get it right and encourage positive engagement with education and the opportunities it can open up to their children, by secondary it could too late.
I think if you ask most secondary parents about primary attendance they’ll say their children went happily. It’s a shock to the system when secondary comes around and they’re suddenly faced with the craziness that it is!!!

Edited

Both my kids were in secondary during Covid and are just coming towards the end of their secondary and hopefully onto uni.

Their secondary schools are good schools. Neither have had a detention at all because they followed the rules. They knew it was expected of them by me and their dad to do so. They also knew they had the choice not to follow them but then there would be a consequence which they would take responsibility for.
One is Sen so I worked closely with the school to ensure support was there when going through EBSA after Covid. And that was key - working WITH the school and not against them. We both wanted the same outcome we just needed to discuss how to get there. (I had to be the squeaky wheel but we got there in the end.)

I see it on MN quite a lot, of parents saying about going into school all guns blazing when there's an issue. It seems there is very much a "them vs us" attitude with schools - does there need to be? Is this the best way to model conflict resolution to kids?

Justrolledmyeyesoutloud · 09/06/2024 15:30

@tinyyellow has hit the nail on the head - l never for one moment thought school wasn't important during Covid, but like she said, there was a deadly virus raging across the world and most kids were off so not like just one or two kids falling behind from poor attendance.
My dd did all the work set by school, l mean she wasn't over the moon about it but was soon glad when she returned to school because all her class mates that chose not to do the work, or whose parents didn't make them, had to do extra tuition. Not including those who had to work. Parents' attitude towards school is so important and to say Covid proved school isn't important is just ridiculous.

WaitingfortheTardis · 09/06/2024 15:36

TinyYellow · 09/06/2024 15:15

This ridiculous attitude is the biggest cause of the current problem with attendance.

No one ever said school wasn’t necessary. The curriculum was suspended for a short time because the world was dealing with a new virus with unknown potential. When schools were closed, children weren’t falling behind their peers because no school work was happening for anyone. Children with low attendance no will be falling behind their peers who are in school because teaching and learning is happening.

After the first few weeks of lockdown, effort was made to continue children’s education precisely because everyone realised how important it was. I’m not saying all schools did a good job of that or that the government handled the situation well, but at no point were parents given the message that school was unimportant. Some lazy parents with a bad attitude just chose to take it that way.

Even if parents were told that school wasn’t important a few years ago, we now have significant evidence of the damage done to to families by lockdown and school closures so there’s no reason for parents to still be using this feeble excuse.

This is absolutely true, I don't think previous Covid lockdowns are an acceptable excuse for absences now.

HermioneWeasley · 09/06/2024 15:37

I think school is important. I think Covid proved that school is important - look what happened to kids’ mental health. But having said it wasn’t necessary for 2 years, and that is what we did as a country, many families have struggled to come back from that.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 09/06/2024 15:42

I just think we as people now majorly lack resilience and the ability to power through anything we find uncomfortable or boring. I’ll be met with a load of ‘my ND child is very resilient thank you and was on the verge of a breakdown etc’, but I’m talking about everyone, adults and children alike. Excuses or reasons are basically meaningless tbh in terms of the result which is a society falling apart.

crumblingschools · 09/06/2024 15:42

@HermioneWeasley it was never said it wasn’t necessary for 2 years. And you would think most sensible parents would be doing all they could to ensure their child was getting an education now and not using a made up excuse that schools were shut for 2 years

PrincessConsuelaBag · 09/06/2024 15:48

itsnotyouagain · 09/06/2024 14:22

Can you clarify this? I work in a school and have school aged children and I don't remember this as a message at all.

I also have an autistic child who did go through a period of anxiety attendance issues due to Covid, but I worked with their school to get them back into full time education.

Lots of parents are working with schools to try and get their child back in, it isn’t always successful and it isn’t always for lack of trying!

PrincessConsuelaBag · 09/06/2024 15:55

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 09/06/2024 15:42

I just think we as people now majorly lack resilience and the ability to power through anything we find uncomfortable or boring. I’ll be met with a load of ‘my ND child is very resilient thank you and was on the verge of a breakdown etc’, but I’m talking about everyone, adults and children alike. Excuses or reasons are basically meaningless tbh in terms of the result which is a society falling apart.

Or we could try and create a more flexible, inclusive approach to education? Surely it’s common sense that a one size fits all approach is going to be doing some children a great disservice. Everyone learns in different ways yet schools are very rigid. It makes no sense.

Redlarge · 09/06/2024 16:03

I think there are genuine reasons for example a friend of mines son really struggled in main stream school due to sen needs that weren't met. He's now in a specialised education setting but it took years and caused a lot of stress and time off. It must have been very difficult and upsetting.

However someone I know who's child doesn't have any additional needs and parent doesn't work is always always off. To attend theme parks without queues/comic con, Holidays.... 3rd one since April missing 3/4 school days each time.

Often mum will say I never sent 'john' today cos he stayed up late/it was raining/we needed a pyjama day/he wanted a lie in/was exhusted after attending the theatre late the night before. One was due to a late night football match he wanted to watch on sky. Imagine if he thinks he can do this in the workplace.

The parent doesn't give a shit on the impact on the rest of the class with the teacher needing to spend time catching up. Plus john thinks he can do what he wants when he wants as this is what his parent has shown him.

Euromonkey · 09/06/2024 16:09

Charlie2121 · 09/06/2024 13:41

This thread reads like an advert for private schools.

If you were paying for it directly you'd probably be more keen on getting them in!

@Hairyfairy01 Then we have days where she has lots of lessons she has no interest in such as music, French etc, which makes it difficult to persuade her to go in. I appreciate your honesty but that's when parenting skills apply and you explain to them the value in education and, illness aside, it's non-negotiable that they attend. Otherwise you are setting them up to be a flaky, workshy adult. Also if you give in then of course they are going to keep trying to do the same trick again...

Leah5678 · 09/06/2024 16:11

Persistently absent is less than 90% you don't have to miss many days to plummet into the 80s. My child always had 100% or missed one day a year but recently been wiped out by chickenpox and then v and d. It happens. 🤷🏻‍♀️

BusyMummy001 · 09/06/2024 16:17

Is this post about rising absenteeism or just a vehicle to suggest that autism is acquired (through over use of devices or whatever crackpot idea) rather than genetic?

If it’s the first - failing schools, children still impacted by nearly 2 years of on/off lockdowns, bugger all access to counselling/therapy/CAMHS, family stresses arising from CoL crisis … and a million other reasons.

If the other, suggest you read up autism and maybe visit the ASD/ADHD threads here.

And, no, 21% rate of absentee children has nothing to do with the completely separate occurrence of 5% of children being diagnosed with ASD/ADHD, even if many of those children reflected within the first statistic.

RawOvaltine · 09/06/2024 16:20

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 09/06/2024 15:42

I just think we as people now majorly lack resilience and the ability to power through anything we find uncomfortable or boring. I’ll be met with a load of ‘my ND child is very resilient thank you and was on the verge of a breakdown etc’, but I’m talking about everyone, adults and children alike. Excuses or reasons are basically meaningless tbh in terms of the result which is a society falling apart.

This certainly applies to younger people at the moment, but I think it’s a result of the society we live in, the constant fear and pressure.

School in the 80s and early 90s wasn’t amazing for me, but it was a totally different experience to how schools are now, the rigidity, the constant pressure from a young age, the ham fisted attempts to help mental health issues that appear to exacerbate them. Teachers attitudes towards children are increasingly negative. Parent blame with SN children is rife.

I do think that natural numbers of SN are higher than we realise, but in a better environment needs are more naturally met. Nowadays very few needs are met. Those that flounder are often not supported well, and this results in either school refusal or poor behaviour, both very difficult to manage.

There’s a child psychologist called Ross Greene whose motto is “Children will do well if they can”, which directly opposes western society expectations which largely dictate that all children should do well, and if they don’t let’s blame the parents and stick our heads in the sand to the glaring issues (current education issues, social media etc). The growing number of struggling young people should be a massive neon sign to the failures of the system and how much it is letting so many down.
When you actually have a child with SN you very quickly learn this.

The current system destroys the resilience in people. It saps out our own inborn power.

My now adult son dramatically school refused at 11. I was proactive in working with his school (an academy which is now known to be awful for SN kids) but they weren’t interested. Eventually we reluctantly pulled him out and HE him for the next 5 years. This is relevant to this comment…

I don’t think there’s any point, I think v few of them will have a productive life. There’s going to be an awful lot of benefit claimants in 5/10 years and anyone with half a brain will leave the country to avoid the tax burden

Had ds stayed in mainstream school I have no doubt that he would not have a productive life, 7 weeks in that school destroyed him, god knows what 5 years would have done!
HE meant he could thrive. He could socialise in ways that suited him (not the current terrifying Wild West of secondary schools). He learnt practical employable skills. At 19 he is anything but a tax burden that mainstream school would have produced. These children who are so often assumed to be a tax burden (ablist) are unable to be productive in a late stage capitalist society because they’ve been hurt so badly by the very organisations that should be inspiring them to grow and fly. It’s shocking really.

School is the problem here for many pupils, not the pupils themselves. They are being forced into situations that literally make them ill.

None of this is making excuses. SN children are the canaries in the mines - they are dropping for a reason. Schools are broken. Unless there is change for the better, more and more pupils will be refusing to go, and more and more parents will prioritise their child’s health over their school attendance.

FawnFrenchieMum · 09/06/2024 16:21

Happyinarcon · 09/06/2024 12:44

I don’t know about autism, but I’m starting to suspect ADHD is an anxiety related condition. Constant anxiety puts someone into a fight or flight mode, this hyper alert state makes if difficult for them to sleep, the ongoing exhaustion and survival mode means their brain stops executive functioning and just moves to impulse led responses. The toxic dysfunctional school environment of bullying and unpredictable discipline actually causes ADHD.

Do you have a medical degree to come up with these theories or just your random thoughts? How do you explain the QB test showing differences in the brains working?

PrincessConsuelaBag · 09/06/2024 16:28

BusyMummy001 · 09/06/2024 16:17

Is this post about rising absenteeism or just a vehicle to suggest that autism is acquired (through over use of devices or whatever crackpot idea) rather than genetic?

If it’s the first - failing schools, children still impacted by nearly 2 years of on/off lockdowns, bugger all access to counselling/therapy/CAMHS, family stresses arising from CoL crisis … and a million other reasons.

If the other, suggest you read up autism and maybe visit the ASD/ADHD threads here.

And, no, 21% rate of absentee children has nothing to do with the completely separate occurrence of 5% of children being diagnosed with ASD/ADHD, even if many of those children reflected within the first statistic.

Yep. I get some parents might not care but the vast majority do! I’ve done everything to try and help my teen get back in to school. Attended all meetings, rang the school daily to let them know of any appointments or changes. Accessed counselling for her. (No thanks to CAHMS)

I’ve dragged my poor daughter out the door. It ended with both of us in tears and her having a panic attack. That day I truly failed as a parent.

But some people just think it’s because we don’t care enough or can’t control our children. 🙄

itsnotyouagain · 09/06/2024 16:29

PrincessConsuelaBag · 09/06/2024 15:48

Lots of parents are working with schools to try and get their child back in, it isn’t always successful and it isn’t always for lack of trying!

I'm not sure my message claims that? If you've taken it that way, I apologise. My point in including it in my post was to show that I've had to work hard to get my child back into school so know how hard that can be for parents and it's not always plain sailing. Equally I know some parents who just get angry and blame school because they want someone to blame for it.

RawOvaltine · 09/06/2024 16:30

Society used to have room for everyone. There were practical options from a young age.
Now academia is pushed and many schools won’t offer any practical courses at all.

There are few allowances for everyone being different, and we’re seeing the results of that now.
The next few years are going to be wild.

PrincessConsuelaBag · 09/06/2024 16:33

itsnotyouagain · 09/06/2024 16:29

I'm not sure my message claims that? If you've taken it that way, I apologise. My point in including it in my post was to show that I've had to work hard to get my child back into school so know how hard that can be for parents and it's not always plain sailing. Equally I know some parents who just get angry and blame school because they want someone to blame for it.

Sorry you probably didn’t tbf, I’m just projecting. It’s hard not to feel judged when it comes to your child not attending school.

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2024 16:37

The question here isn't about autism.

It is about 20% is so high you can't explain it even if you except that autism/adhd cases are relevant.

Something else has to be going on.

A chat with any teacher for about ten minutes over this will state there's a change in parental attitudes. It probably started before COVID, but was probably amplified by it.

If it's an increase in mental health issues, you have to ask why too. What's changed? Is it the education system? Or untreated Sen kids? Or is it social media use (including for adults)?

What shocked me most during the pandemic wasn't that there were parents who said it didn't matter if they got no education at home. It was the fact that there were so many other parents who agreed and validated it. It was not the attitude I expected from the area which is sharp pointy elbow land generally.

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2024 16:41

As for it being about the school environment - we are seeing increasing issues with behaviour at scouts. Everything from basic levels of respect to standing still when needed.

These are kids who have more engaged parents generally.

There has to be an element of either parental attitudes or social media coming into it. Or both.

ShillyShallySherbet · 09/06/2024 16:41

I think it’s a complex combination of everything you say OP but I do think what’s massive is smartphones/screens making staying at home in a bubble a lot more appealing/easier than getting out and facing reality. Back along it would have been so boring to stay at home all the time, not so much anymore. Parents think it’s dangerous to let their children play in the street with their friends (which it is to be fair) but the alternative is children glued to screens and engaging in an arguably more dangerous online world. I don’t know what the answer is, smartphones/screens are a Pandora’s box that once opened I’m not sure how it can be closed.

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