21% of pupils are persistently absent! National average is double post COVID

[FusionChefGeoff]

Just read this on the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1ddegp8zvo

It's a stark statistic that nearly a quarter of kids are basically not getting an education. A quarter of our society is being failed before they even reached adulthood.

The article does explore various different reasons that contribute or explain the massive number but I'm shocked at how high it is and what a massive challenge it is to sort it out. I'm definitely going to be listening hard to the politicians take on this issue or is everyone who matters just ignoring it?

I'd break it down into the following categories and I think points 2 and 3 demonstrate why this is such a major problem as they are a 'dammned if you do, damned if you don't' combination.

• genuine, extreme medical mental health issues which you'd imagine should normally be quite a small number but has been drastically increased by the collapse in our CAHMS service
• school induced medical health issues due to draconian rules / behaviours management systems
• school induced mental health issues due to the lack of the above and disruptive behaviour / breakdown of trust / general chaos
• home induced mental health issues due to family situation eg mental health issues in parents / bereavements / other trauma
• inherited lack of belief / value in education so parents don't care, kids don't care, don't bother going to school basically neglectful parents
• manipulative kids using 'mental health' as a way to get out of doing something they don't want to do combined with permissive / poor parenting which allows this behaviour

The biggest thing we have to tackle is why there's such a huge increase in ADHD and autism diagnoses (assuming you can access any kind of assessment of course)....

is it just that we talk more about it?

Is it early access / excessive use of devices that wires our kids all wrong to cope with the world?
Is it a rise in well intentioned but misunderstood 'gentle parenting' ie people doing it wrong and ending up with very permissive / neglectful parenting that again, wires their brains all wrong and removes all resilience?

We can't just keep looking at throwing money and resources the very acute symptoms ie the school refusers without putting the same effort into understanding and FIXING the problems.

I just can't accept a world where a quarter of kids are at such an enormous disadvantage in life before they even leave school it's too sad.

@Caffeineislife schools in England were not shut for 2 years, impacted yes but not shut.

@WittyFatball parental attitude impacts both of those questions

Other countries have exactly the same problem, it's a post pandemic issue not a U.K. issue.

Belgium

www.brusselstimes.com/366824/prolonged-pandemic-impact-school-absenteeism-at-record-levels

Germany

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10564934.2023.2257195

The article on Germany actually comes from a special issue of an education research journal looking at different approaches to dealing with school absenteeism in Europe.

For many parents it’s very clear that school is the problem for our children though.
An overhaul can’t come soon enough but there isn’t the luxury of time for lots of children.

Too many children are harmed by school.
The most damaged I know finish school at 16/18 and mentally collapse. My nephew is now 26 and only just recovering.

Home education on the other hand seems to be producing well supported, more well rounded ND children that have fewer difficulties entering adulthood than many ND children in school (based on personal experience, and I’m sure that varies from area to area).

School is important, but if it’s traumatising to a child they’re not going to develop in a healthy way.

I think i said days when she has no interest in the lessons rather than not liking them. To me there is a difference here, I honestly don't feel that her missing music for example is going to impact her life too much - science maybe.

I do take on board what people are saying about having to go to work, attend meetings you don't like, being resilient etc, and I don't disagree. However equally I hope she gets a job that she is interested in, and therefore motivated to go to (plus the fact you are getting paid). Her sport has taught her to be resilient, and also to be committed - she trains 18 hours a week, getting up at 5 am, 4 x a week for 3 hours of training before school, plus additional training after school. She's has shown commitment and resilience in her sport, which I hope will be transferable to other areas of her life.

The grandparent holiday I really don't mind. She doesn't see them often and spends a lot of the time helping to look after her younger cousins, being outside, interacting with older cousins and generally having a bit of time away from home / us.

That said I am aware that her attendance needs to improve. And I don't disagree that I probably don't value the school education system highly and this has transferred down to my dd.

My children had excellent attendance, but Covid played a huge part and families wandered what was so important pre March 2020 but in the year's following attendance wasn't an issue. That thought has continued.
And the curriculum is outdated, boring a measure of a memory test at 16. Not everyone can pass that test so they give up well before.
I'm so glad my daughters are out of it

@crumblingschools maybe not closed for 2 years but with all the "bubbles" "isolating" and "testing" that went on many children didn't do full weeks for the 2021 school year. Bubbles popped left, right and centre round us, especially when some students realized that you could manipulate the tests and they would go positive. Then that whole bubble was sent home to isolate with "online learning". Then there were all the staff off so year groups were closed to students as yr 10 and 11 were priority.

My two sons missed over a month each this year, one with ear infections, extreme hayfever and dental issues (all connected, he’s been on a waiting list for two and a half years for braces and finally, finally he’s getting them!). The other is probably what people are talking about, he didn’t get into an optional year here in Ireland and so went on to the next year, all his friends not there, him miserable- a Monday morning he’d say he was feeling sick when he wasn’t and refused to go into school. I had talks with the school, he’d go in fine some days, others not, he had talks with a counsellor, the headteacher and the career’s guidance teacher and would be fine then we’d get a phone call from the school asking to collect him.

We also know two boys, severe mh issues, so sad, quiet little guys, definitely being bullied and school are trying their best to help and accommodate them but it goes on. both HATE school. It’s so sad because if the school wasn’t as loud and crazy they’d be the type to love school, both hard working, lovely guys but now like shadows.

Op, the biggest problem is that schools have lost control. Ours, one of the ‘nice’ schools, is like a zoo. Quiet kids/ kids that aren’t loud are swallowed up and spat out. Hate it.

Agreed!

The reasons why education exists at all seems to have been utterly lost. Education for all (rather than just the rich in times past) is a way out of poverty. Many children are very passive which I imagine they get from their parents, but education requires engagement from student and their family.

Some parents don't do their children any favours at all by not valuing education. If your child is ill and needs to stay home, that can't be helped, but if they miss days at school when they could be in, they will have gaps, and these gaps will widen the more time they have off. It leads to shaky understanding on basics taught which, in turn, affects that child's self esteem because others in class know but they don't. They may be able to catch up, but equally they may not. There isn't always money in the school budget to provide catch up lessons.

I say all the above from a primary school perspective. If parents don't get it right and encourage positive engagement with education and the opportunities it can open up to their children, by secondary it could too late.

@Arlott would you say that education standards are higher now than in the 90s/2000s/2010s?

I don't work in education so haven't got a clue but I left school in 2006 and would say that the standards were good then and the majority of people went (at least where I lived which was a deprived area).

Ps the people who think you can deal with school refusal and it’s a failure on the part of a parent have never had actual school refusal, they’ve just dealt with someone not wanting to go in. It’s a new ball game when you hear ‘I can’t, I won’t, please don’t make me, you’re not getting me in there’ etc, sometimes with sobbing. Most parents want their children in school, life’s not that easy

I agree massively with this. I don't think the full impact of so many future non-tax payers is recognised yet for our children when they're older.

I say all the above from a primary school perspective. If parents don't get it right and encourage positive engagement with education and the opportunities it can open up to their children, by secondary it could too late.
I think if you ask most secondary parents about primary attendance they’ll say their children went happily. It’s a shock to the system when secondary comes around and they’re suddenly faced with the craziness that it is!!!

GCSE and A level results are not comparable across time.

The best way to look at educational standards is using something like PISA where 15 year olds in many countries do a standardised test.

We have data from pisa going back to 2006.

Reading has improved, maths has improved science has not.

https://www.oecd.org/pisa/publications/PISA2018CNN_GBR.pdf

The parent who spent the entire pandemic talking about how she wouldn't home school, it wasn't important, it wasn't her responsibility, refused to turn up to zoom classes (when everyone else did - despite being given a tablet by school to help), is now the parent who makes every kid of excuse about why her son can't manage to get into school on time.

Its really disruptive for the rest of the class.

Its funny how its not any of the parents who bust a gut in difficult circumstance to ensure their kid did have access to an education.

The excuses and expectations she has of the school blow my mind. Its not her responsibility.

Do you work ?

@Neurodiversitydoctor - yes. But regardless, you can’t send a child into school when they are ill

Hmm, honestly there is ill and ill. Your DC is not well today, fever and coughing, if he woke up tomorrow with no fever but basically well in themselves eating and drinking ok, pre 2020 mine would have been in school.

I don't disagree that it's possible for kids to be over diagnosed with ADHD but the generalizations are so fucking frustrating.

We are a fairly strict 2 parent home. We have good wages, no socioeconomic issues, no family dysfunction. We have always rejected video game/tablet/phone culture for our kids who are active in sports and other hobbies. My kids have near 100% attendance at school. One also has bloody ADHD. As does my husband. Not self diagnosed but diagnosed through multiple psychological assessments private and through school. You cannot spend any amount of time with our eldest and not see it.

Lumping everyone with a diagnosis into the category of fairy-land made up nonsense due to bad parenting is ignorant, cruel and keeps kids from getting their needs taken seriously.

When you hear a child has ASD or ADHD feel free to not arm-chair analyze it - it has nothing whatsoever to do with you.

Both of my older DC dropped into that category the year they were waiting for tonsillectomies, and the NHS waiting lists are much worse now.

I imagine health policy impacts education quite a lot.

From my perspective as a parent of a ND child .

school has become more rigid , isolation for much more minor infringements.

The amount of ND children who don’t belong in mainstream but lack of SS placements , who absolutely can’t cope with this rigidity .

school uniforms which are more blazers which can’t be removed even in hot weather.

and the funding for inclusion to work absolutely isn’t there.

Because these ND children are in the wrong setting, there are not coping / disruptive - causing fear/ frustration and anxiety for NT children .

Access to camhs is woefully inadequate. Waiting lists for assessment is years . Children should be the centre of this but aren’t

I read an article recently that was very interesting, it was looking at young people (under 18's) and mental health. I think a lot of people have/had been blaming this on Covid but looking at the stats it was already significantly dropping beforehand Covid.

And guess what, it started with the introduction of the smart phone and social media. I think this has a lot to answer for (not always the answer to everything) it was very daming. I'll see if I can find it.

@Neurodiversitydoctor - He’s 4, he hasn’t slept properly since Friday evening. At 4pm he still has a fever, he’s wheezy, coughing . I’m not going to send him to kindergarten tomorrow on hardly any sleep, with high temp 14hrs beforehand ( he might have it all night and tomorrow for all I know). All that will do is him miserable and learning nothing, and spreading whatever he has.

If he’s in hospital for other stuff but not ill in himself, he’s often learning anyway as we read, do writing books etc whilst waiting.

I remember people used to attend offices with full on flu, just because. Luckily now days most places are much more open to people staying home and working from home a few days if full on snotty cold but not at deaths door. And less of the office gets ill.

My child is neurodivergent and there's not a chance I'll force her in if she needs time at home to regulate and get on top of her anxiety that she faces there. the fact is, as an adult, if she were signing on, she won't be expected to work full time hours by the job centre, so why would I make a small child do full time hours with no time to regulate?

I think attendance is lower because the current generation of parents have had the internet for a long time and have learned to have critical thought and understand the importance of emotions a lot more. accessing therapy became less taboo, so we've learned so much about self care and a lot of us try to protect our children's emotions and mental health in the same way.

Her reading is fine for her age and she's progressing well, she asks loads of questions and there's plenty to be learned from being at home- otherwise those online education/development things and health visitor pamphlets wouldn't constantly label every little thing a 1-4 year old does as a type of learning experience and nurseries wouldn't be made by the authorities to demonstrate the type of learning a child is doing by kicking a ball around, in their progress files. you don't just stop learning how the world works at 5 and there's more to life than writing essays, as you get older.

I know it's different if you're both working full time and need the child in school that regularly, but for those of us that can manage it, we let days slide in their best interests.

This ridiculous attitude is the biggest cause of the current problem with attendance.

No one ever said school wasn’t necessary. The curriculum was suspended for a short time because the world was dealing with a new virus with unknown potential. When schools were closed, children weren’t falling behind their peers because no school work was happening for anyone. Children with low attendance no will be falling behind their peers who are in school because teaching and learning is happening.

After the first few weeks of lockdown, effort was made to continue children’s education precisely because everyone realised how important it was. I’m not saying all schools did a good job of that or that the government handled the situation well, but at no point were parents given the message that school was unimportant. Some lazy parents with a bad attitude just chose to take it that way.

Even if parents were told that school wasn’t important a few years ago, we now have significant evidence of the damage done to to families by lockdown and school closures so there’s no reason for parents to still be using this feeble excuse.

The careless attitude of some parents to education absolutely blows my mind. Honestly, poor kids. What chance do they have?