senior school

[inasummer]

Hello everyone,

I have a quick question: If your child is attending an ofstead outstanding school, how much additional tuition is needed for the child to get into a good senior school?Thank you in advance!

Ofsted outstanding means that the school knows how to jump through hood for ofsted.

Your child may be high attaining or low attaining - not possible to tell just from whether they go to an ofsted outstanding school

Do you mean state school?
Unless it's a Grammar school and children need to pass the 11+ then the main criteria for getting a school place is distance from where you live.
It does vary between areas and schools but that's pretty much the main one.

An Ofsted outstanding school doesn't mean anything other than it can tick Ofsted boxes. It is no guarantee of the education being given or the standard of pupil.

This is very true, and I wish it was more widely known.
An inspector / former inspector on the staff can wangle an outstanding ofsted rating for a crap school by ticking the right boxes, even though the actual education is sub-standard and the place has no real care for the kids.
My child briefly attended one such school - the head was a former inspector. Outstanding Ofsted, crap school. We voted with our feet.

Even if your child is high attaining at an outstanding primary (and I agree that ‘outstanding' doesn’t reflect the quality of teaching), they most likely will still need outside tuition if you’re looking at grammar schools or selective independent schools. The exams are hard, often testing well beyond the state school curriculum. Also a big part of it is time management and familiarity with the exam format.

If you want to get into an 11+ state grammar you often need to unlearn material you learn at state as well as learn new things. How much tutoring this translates to depends on the child. To get into Birmingham Grammar schools most of my friends paid roughly 6k a year from 8 for daily tutoring and testing. But I do know parents in the SE who were quoted double this.

@inasummer your question is unclear, so some of the answers are unclear too.

If you want your child to go to a particular school you need to go to their website and look at their admissions policy. Most schools have a distance-based policy, many have a faith-based policy, and a small number are academically selective ( they are called grammar schools).

Do you want your child to go to a grammar school? Lots of the replies from other posters have assumed you do.

If you just want them to go to an Ofsted Outstanding school that isn't a grammar school then you don't need any extra tuition. However, if you're unlikely to meet their admission criteria then you may need to move house or go to church.

Before you do any of those things, you should understand that many Ofsted Good schools are just as good as Outstanding schools, but just didn't manage to convince an inspector of that.

Before you do any of those things, you should understand that many Ofsted Good schools are just as good as Outstanding schools, but just didn't manage to convince an inspector of that

And also to the point, many Ofsted Outstanding schools may not have been inspected in the career of any of the current staff - and definitely not of any of the children - currently at the school. Although the new inspection regime is catching up - and a lot of schools 'Good' on recent inspection were, up to that point, 'Outstanding' from a last inspection well over a decade ago.

Hi All,

Many thanks for your replies, and apologies for the lack of responses from my side. We are new to the British system, and our idea was the following:

• either get him in a private prep school, which is focused for the 11+, and hope we're going to need as little tuition as possible in addition;
• get him to a good public school (as far as I've been told, the offsted outstanding ones are very good, but below the Grammar ones), and pay for private tuition, to get him in a position to be offered by good Senior schools.

He's quite a bright kid, and I was thinking/hoping that he will get good academics from an Outstanding school.

Thanks

Ok.

A lot depends on which schooling system you are coming from.

The secondary (senior) schools in the UK come in three types

Firstly private (paid for). These could be boarding or day schools. They are expensive.

Secondly free state selective schools. These are usually grammars. They only exist in some parts of the country. Some of the hardest to get into are known as "super-selective" for that reason.

State schools are not called public schools in the U.K. that means something else here.

Thirdly comprehensives where whether you get in depends on where you live not a selection test.

If you are looking at paid for schools I would suggest an education consultant. If you want free (state) schools and you want a selective senior school you will need to move to a grammar area and pass either the 11+ or their own tests.

Also a private prep school will prepare for the private senior schools. It will give a good academic education (generally) but they do not prepare for the 11+.

Grammar schools are state selective secondaries for which dc take 11+, not available in many areas where they operate a comprehensive (mixed ability) system. Confusingly many private schools are also titled "grammar" having gone private when state 11+ system was largely abolished. "Public" has a different connotation in UK, you mean state schools. Not all preps prepare for selective entrance tests other than for a related senior school.

@inasummer do you want state schools (free provided by the state) or private schools (fee paying).
"Public" school confusingly doesn't mean state schools.
Prep schools are private schools.
Private schools are sometimes called "Independent" schools.
Grammar schools are state schools (except a few that may Grammar in the name but are actually paid private schools).
Grammar schools don't exist in most of the UK.
"Public" Schools are the very expensive private ones like Eton.
Ofsted doesn't inspect all Independent schools.
What type of school are actually aiming for?

"as far as I've been told, the Ofsted outstanding ones are very good, but below the Grammar ones"

@inasummer it depends what you are looking for. Grammar schools get strong results overall because they have a selective intake, but good comprehensive schools do well for children of all abilities. So an individual child can do equally well at a comprehensive school as at a grammar school.

My daughter was at an Ofsted 'Good' comprehensive secondary school for years 7-11 then moved to a super-selective grammar school in year 12. She would say the teaching was much better at her comprehensive school. However, I can see that rubbing shoulders with other bright ambitious students at the grammar school is having a positive impact on her work ethic and motivation. She is no longer top of the class for little effort - instead she is working hard to keep pace. I'm glad she's experienced both schools because it helps her understand where she stands academically compared to a wider population of people.

Hey OP some good advice and help here already.

Terminology has been helpfully explained.

How old is your DS? I assume primary age?
Where do you live or where do you plan or need to live?

State (free) grammar schools only exist in very small pockets of England (despite what you might think from reading MN!). I am from such an area (S Lincs) but I wouldn’t recommend it as a place to live.

The good news is that there are lots of excellent state (free) comprehensive schools (the option for the majority of 11yos). Some are Ofsted outstanding, some good; but I wouldn’t get too hung up on that,. The even better news is that there is no selection to go to a state comp – you just need to live nearby and apply correctly at the right time.

If you can give us an idea of area we can advise – there are lots of MNers all over the UK. For example I am in the East Mids and would suggest living near Ecclesbourne in Derbyshire, Littleover CS in Derby, Woodlands in Derby (newly rated good) West Bridgford School in Nottinghamshire. There are lots of others that are great too. No tutoring needed to get in.

either get him in a private prep school, which is focused for the 11+, and hope we're going to need as little tuition as possible in addition;

Are you in an 11+ area?

The private prep would be the best option. If they specifically offer 11+ prep AND prep for private school you will not need additional tutoring.