I have been told dd1 4.5 is disruptive , isnt recognising letters and cant work beyond the number 10

[melsy]

Should I be concerned about it? What is expected at 4.5 years old bearing in mind, due to her birthday, she is only in nursery????I was only told on Tues of this week at my 1st parents evening. I hadn't attended before as she missed most of the 1st term due to being very unwell and having surgery etc. Im quite upset that she didnt bring these things to my attention sooner and also explain in what context she meant them. Also may be recognise some leniency in light of what happened to her at intake time????Ive done a little work at home with her this week and seen that yes she finds finding 20 items quite difficult. I did some simple addition and subtraction whilst doing some "shopping" and despite struggling beyond 10 seemed quite able to count out items up to 10, is this may be why the teacher wants her to go further? The letter thing I'm not even sure why she needs to be recognise them? surely the new letters and sounds programme doesn't ask for strict recognition at this stage yet? I said the sound s and asked her what shape it made and she said curly and what word/item and she said snake? surely that's quite good and enough for right now? I find these situations in life quite difficult, I had an awful time at school both socially and academically and had little support for it. So the thought o asking to talk further makes me stomach churn and my head thump ! Why point this all out in a strict 10 mins meeting and give it no back up , practical steps for support at home or suggest another appt? The only plus side,which her teacher led in with and which Im not going to make a big deal of & not even told dd1 about yet, is that shes been put on the gifted and talented register for Art and creativity.

eh , I had this all paragraphed whats happened?

Sorry if it hurts your eyes its hurting mine. Id be surprised if you read it all now! mn techyyyy help.

Is it a private nursery or a school nursery?

melsy, my ds is nearly 3 so i have little experience to share with you. but don't understand why you are so worried about the numbers thing, sounds like she is doing ok and as you say very young. surely the great thing is that she is doing well at art and creativity. is she happy at school? is there another problem?

my dd is 4.7 and therefore in reception, errr she can't read hardly anything etc etc not really sure what the nursery is on about!

My nearly 6 year old struggles with adding and subtracting up to 10 and she is in the middle group for maths in her class.

Make an appointment to see the teacher again and write down all your concerns so that you can be sure that you have addressed them all.She should have explained more clearly about the 'disruptive' thing and as you say, in what context it occurs. Is it counting up above 10 or adding above 10 she is struggling with?

If I were you I would not worry at all about the letters and numbers, which sounds like quite a normal level for her age, especially if she is not in Reception yet.

I would be more concerned to find out exactly what they mean by "disruptive". Sounds like a pretty strong word for a child who is still at nursery - where they are meant to be spending most of their time playing, not sitting down and towing the line.

And rejoice that they have recognised her creative ability - good to know that they aren't completely fixated on reading and maths!

Is this a case of the 'we have to get them all to recognise 1- 10 by the end of nursery' or something? My son had a terrible day at nursery which upset him greatly, when one of the teachers was trying to get him to use scissors, I was told about it by one of the other teachers and she explained that they had to get them all able to use scissors before they enter reception. Why? To tick all the boxes and show what a good school they are? I feel uncomfortable for you that your daughter has been labelled disruptive at 4.5 that feels totally inappropriate. Sounds to me like she is doing fine and as expected for her age, they all vary so much, and you sound great with her just allowing her to be herself.Perhaps the teacher did not mean it as we are hearing it, they have to say something. Also the gifted and talented is relevant, her brain is wired that way, not so much the mathematical way,, vive la difference.

I think a nursery aged child working within ten is doing pretty well in number work. Letters and Sounds for nursery aged children is all about developing aural/oral skills.

Is your dd one of the older ones at nursery and somehow they're expecting more of her?

DS's key worker is fab at early yrs education, in fact would make an excellent primary school teacher. However, her emphasis is on the good behaviour rather than the academic stuff.

I would personally ask about the disruptive part. Under what circumstances is she 'disruptive'? Is she 'disruptive' when doing the things she likes like arts and crafts or is she focused then? when doing something she finds hard? When socialising with other children? Or is she just not sitting still?

My dd is 4.6, one of the oldest in her class, isn't particularly advanced - counts to 29, starting to recognise only a few letters and even fewer numbers. Also very good at drawing.

She got a glowing report at the last parent-teacher meeting (also 10 mins) and teacher just asked me to work on sounds and letter recognition at home, because that is the foundation for reading.

I started school at 7 (non-UK), don't even have any memories of learning to read (it came naturally, I think). tbh, I could hardly get excited even if the teacher said dd was behind because children vary so much in ability at this age. Your dd might be great at skipping and talking, and other children who are better at letters and numbers not as good at drawing and running. I can't imagine it matters much in the short term.

It is a lot like that silly 2 year check where the health visitor went down a checklist. I think this EYF (Early Years' Foundation) is a similar tick box.

your daughter sounds very advanced to me for nursery. Maybe disruptive if she is one of the older ones in nursery and is ready for the change school, ds2 was like this.

Thank you for all replies, really helpful and appreciated. I had to post and run earlier,I havent been in this evening to reply and really need bed. When my heads plugged in a bit better tommorow, Id like to reply to whats been said in more detail if I may.

dd1 is 5 in September and is one of the older ones in her class.

Puzzled anout the strict 10 minute interview and parents' evening for a nursery child - surely this doesn't usually start til they are at school?

Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore

She's doing really well - most Reception children can't work with more than 10 or recognize their letters. She's supposed to be playing - that's her work at the moment!

Nursery is nursery, it is for playing in. print this out and take it in for them to read.

panorama report

mrz - its a nursery in a state school

fishie I wasnt really worried at all before the meeting !!!! Shes very happy , she says the odd thin about friends taking her things and laughing , but she doesn't say thins like that often.

Cargirl , you are right , I can make some rally good notes from this thread and be more informed when I speak with the teacher. Counting wise , she can count up to 30 , adding wise, she can work in the 10's only , but I thought that was fine !!!!

Smithagain , my thoughts exactly , why use such a derogatory term for a young child.

Saaa , may be yes , I think this may form part of the schools own levels of criteria.

Mrz thats what I thought with the new literacy initiative for letters and sounds.Its just about sounds right now, I didnt know they had to recognise the whole alphabet yet. I didnt think that happened till yr 1 or beyond? and even then its staggered into letter grps? To be honest as a group of parents , we've only just be informed formally at special evening about the initiative last week and they've been working on it with them more 6mths already.

bluehsoes your right , I need to take it with a pinch of salt really. Its just a shock as it was the 1st meeting.

cha , my sister said shes probably ready for reception and more structure. My nephew was the same at this stage.

Seeker , I think this school prides it self on its formalities ,even if inappropriate to age. I think the nursery teachers have a children should be seen and not heard culture. mainly due to an old retiring head mistress.

Smugcolditz reading your link right now

very interesting article . So basically the formality of teaching in this country and the tick box notions are really not setting our children up for the best adulthood. The mention of higher divorce rates linked with strict education was worrying.

Also that the new initiative is again adding to this regime culture in schools and is pushing children way beyond their years.

Are they saying that the new letters and sounds directive, if theirs evidence against it, is far to formal for nursery and reception? Or am I wrong here?

So as a parent if we disagree with teaching methods and school culture what do we do?

Thankfully we have a new headmaster starting at the end of the year who is very pro parents, unlike the current head who just sees us as a nuisance and doesn't know a single child even if they are standing right next to her!

Timely discussion, sky news right now are discussing this very area of pushing children.

Letters and Sounds doesn't advocate formal teaching in nursery but some settings are working that way and adopting a tick list audit culture with staff so busy assessing children they don't have time to interact with them in an appropriate way. The excuse for working in such a way is often "it's what our parents want"... is it really?

Letters and Sounds Information for nursery parents

Phase 1

This paves the way for systematic phonics learning, and usually starts in nursery or playgroup.

Teachers plan activities that will help children to listen attentively to sounds around them such as the sounds of their toys and to sounds in spoken language. Teachers teach a wide range of nursery rhymes and songs. They read good books to and with the children. This helps to increase the number of words they know ? their vocabulary ? and helps them talk confidently about books.

Ways you can support your children at home
Play ?What do we have in here?? Put some toys or objects in a bag and pull one out at a time. Emphasise the first sound of the toy/object by repeating it ? e.g. ?c c c c ? car?, ?b b b b ? box?, ?ch ch ch ch ? chip?.

Say ?A tall tin of tomatoes!? ?Tommy, the ticklish teddy!? ?A lovely little lemon!? This is called alliteration. Use names ? eg. ?Gurpreet gets the giggles?, ?Milo makes music?, ?Naheema?s nose?.

Teach them ?Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers?

Learning how to ?sound-talk?

The teacher shows children how to do this ? c-a-t = cat. The sounds (phonemes) are spoken aloud, in order, all through the word. This is called blending ? it is a vital skill for reading.

They will also learn to do it the other way around ? cat = c-a-t. The whole word is spoken aloud, and then broken up into its sounds (phonemes) in order, all through the word. This is called segmenting ? it is a vital skill for spelling.

This is all oral (spoken). Your child will not be expected to match the letter to the sound at this stage. The emphasis is on helping children to hear the separate sounds in words and to create spoken sounds.

Ways you can support your children at home
Sound-talking
Find real objects around your home which have three phonemes (sounds) and practise ?sound talk? ? first just let them listen, then see if they will join in, e.g.
?I spy a p-e-g ? peg?
?I spy a c-u-p ? cup?
?Where?s your other s-o-ck ? sock??

?Simon says ? put your hands on your h-ea-d?
?Simon says ? sit on the ch-air?
?Simon says ? pick up your b-a-g?

www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/local/clld/las/support.html
for the full download

Thank you for that mrz. Was that lifted fron the link? Informative way to work this into the home.

It appears even more that the school may be has put their own measures in to audit the success of their teaching of this may be?

If you go to support, resources and select support for parents there is an information for parents. The extract is lifted from the parents leaflet.

Don't worry. Working up to 10 is very good for a child still in nursery and she does not need to be aable to recognise letters before reception. I think that the nursery is expecting to much of her.