To have though of a fairer way to fund state education than VAT on private?

[wlakaaf]

State schools are in desperate need of funding.

Money needs raising.

Instead of sticking 20% onto private fees - when those people are already paying 100% of the costs for educating their child, how about this:

Parents of children currently in state schools ought to contribute to their education on a means tested basis. There would be no argument over means, it would be a simple reference to the council tax band of the house you live in. We have bands A-H. I would propose that people in band A-F pay nothing. People in band G pay a fixed charge per year and people in band H pay a higher fixed charge per year.

Keir Starmer has used money to buy a massively expensive house, worth in the region of £2m, in the very tight catchment of a lovely state primary. This is buying privilege, same as buying private education. So why does he get away without paying?

@LuluBlakey1 but this policy isn’t going to change any of that, either all the issues in state schools or the inequality due to privilege

Which is absolutely fine, surely, as long as the person has the choice to say "Oh no, thank you airline, but by passing on your tax burden to me, the customer rather than taking a hit on your own profits, you've actually priced me out of the market, so I will have to use the economy ticket ive paid for and not pay for the business class one as well".

education isn’t a luxury

Which is why it is available for free in the UK. Free at the point of use but paid for through the tax system.

You've opted to pay for private education. Which isn't free at the point of use and is paid for by parents, not through the tax system.

You don't seem to be able (or willing, perhaps) to acknowledge the difference? And I can't really understand why as it's not a complicated concept.

I think the best solution is to bring all private schools under state control, would be great in the furtherance of an equality agenda. All the better off, better educated, peeps amongst us could then expend their time lobbying state schools about improving standards for Tarquin.

Chardonnay and Eric would benefit from that lobbying, and obviously the good behaviour example set by said Tarquin.

Tarquin can also learn to be more caring and tolerant of oikes and perhaps be kinder as an adult in his leadership role

I thought about this for two minutes. So obvious, a win win.

Well it will if the extent of the privilege is reduced and we have a government that invests in education. But I was challenging the argument that the dismantling of privilege has just resulted in the current state if education- it hasn't. Many other government policies by Tory governments have achieved the current state of education- it suits the Tories to keep the most vulnerable in their place. They are happy to waste potential, discriminate and not offer every child the best - we could end up with a more equal society which would never do. Why would they exploit then?
If this policy tips some more funding into State education- great.

@CrispsForTheCrispy

Op has paid for BOTH and Economy and business class ticket (by paying her taxes she is entitled to a state school place) but she's chosen to use only the Business class ticket. However, in addition to the increased cost of business class, the airline owner now wants to charge an additional premium for Business class while keeping the cost of Economy class the same

So she decides whether to pay for business class seat, including the additional premium, or opts out and decides she will fly economy as she cannot afford business and / or doesn't believe the difference in price is reflected in the service provided.

What's wrong with that set up? She isn't being forced to do anything.

Two minutes is longer than Gove gave to curriculum reform- and that's not a joke. He made it up on the hoof and called ideas in to the DFE as he walked from the tube. They have talked about it and how bonkers he was.

@whatsitcalledwhen and in that analogy the additional income from business class goes nowhere in improving economy and in fact cattle class conditions will get worse

Just tax dividends paid by UK companies to non-UK people and companies - just like the US does at 30%. Many other countries do so.

There should however be exemptions for shares held for the benefit of UK pension funds.

But no government or opposition party has the balls to do so, as it would upset their offshore donors/puppet masters…

UK citizens are being taxed to death so that offshore investors can asset strip the country.

After that they should target interest payments to offshore investors…

@LuluBlakey1 Brilliant posts!

It's not denial to see that the Tories have systematically underfunded education for the last 14 years. We could afford better education but the Tories choose not to.

Correct! You can only hope that the plane is built in such a way that means is doesn't crash when everyone moves from Business crash to economy and all the weight is at one end instead of being distributed. But if course we trust the Airline owner so much, they have an excellent safety record so we just know that they've thought about all the possible end scenarios and have planned for that. Right? Right.

Eh? How did you work that out? We are most definitely not rich…

If you think the market is best placed to educate your children you have to face the reality of the market. That means paying fees and paying taxes. Like every other market-based transaction. It’s not unfair, it’s literally how the world works.

A normal London school isn't a normal school. London privilege.

Dumb comment. I went to school in North London. I felt so privileged as I travelled there from the 1 room temporary housing we were in for months and months.

I don't think weight distribution can be that much of a concern given 94% of passengers would have always been travelling in the back.

@CrispsForTheCrispy

Correct! You can only hope that the plane is built in such a way that means is doesn't crash when everyone moves from Business crash to economy and all the weight is at one end instead of being distributed. But if course we trust the Airline owner so much, they have an excellent safety record so we just know that they've thought about all the possible end scenarios and have planned for that. Right? Right.

94.1% of passengers are already flying economy.

Not all of the 5.9% business passengers will decide to give up join economy, many will remain in business class.

It's hardly evenly distributed (or anywhere remotely close) as it is, is it?

This should have said:

Not all of the 5.9% business passengers will decide to give up their business tickets to join economy, many will remain in business class.

Instead of sticking 20% onto private fees - when those people are already paying 100% of the costs for educating their child, how about this...

Let's get our facts straight. Many parents pay more than 100% of the costs. Why? Because the extra funds pay for bursaries to help less well-off kids.

Imposing VAT treats the schools as businesses, relieving them of their charitable objectives. So they'll no longer have to provide the bursaries - it may actually benefit the very well off parents, or be broadly cost-neutral. At the same time the very bright poorer kids no longer have such generous funding, so fall back on the state. Many private schools will simply try to plug any gaps by enrolling more overseas students.

So we'll have renewed competition by catchment area for the best state schools putting more pressure on surrounding house prices.

Over 5 years, Labour's plan may actually lead to a net cost to the state and disadvantage the very kids who gained the most from subsidised places at private schools. So it's just a short-term, ill-considered policy feeding the politics of envy.

@whatsitcalledwhen @5128gap fair enough then, I guess Labour's plan (if implemented) will be an amazing success! Also I'm guessing the 94% takes into consideration the increasing population? If yes, then I'm sure it'll all go swimmingly :)

We shouldn't count on that though, the hope should be that ALL Business class will go over to Economy. After all the goal is that all flyers should have the exact same experience regardless of cost? So maybe the Airline will go even further and remove Business class completely to achieve this goal

They do if they are renting with house mates. Like most students and young professionals.

Why can't the 'very bright poorer kids' benefit from a decent state education like the vast majority of kids - bright or not so bright?

The argument needs to be about driving for equality not sustaining inequality.

@IFollowRivers but this policy doesn’t stop inequality. It doesn’t help improve state education

My guess is it will be considered of very little importance either way, given it impacts only 6% of the households in the UK who have school age children, which is actually a very small percentage of the electorate. The rest of us may have an opinion, may even be against the policy, but I doubt sufficiently invested to make noise or even give it that much headspace. The new government will be under the spotlight for a great many issues of huge national importance. I doubt many will be tracking the success or failures of this one.