If you’re charged VAT will you remove your child from their private school? I’m v stressed!

[Liikklu]

We won’t be able to pay the increase. Only hope is asking grandparents for the shortfall which we don’t want to do. Anyone else in a similar boat? Do you think it will literally be a 20% increase on fees or will schools absorb some of it? Our school has said they will address the matter ‘if and when’ it applies.

Private school parents will not be able to change anything. Government policies and investment is the only thing that will improve schools.

Quite.

I agree on this one. But that’s were extra funds come in for ex private. Choice of better state will be a priority.

If anybody knows about education, it’s Keir Starmer. His family have worked in state schools for years and he used to regularly come and help/speak at state schools when he was DPP. I have personal experience of the school his children went to, having taught in the area. It was the same as any other inner city state school; a wildly varied intake, with middle class families to refugees. The school’s success wasn’t built upon the families living in million pound houses in the vicinity. And anyway, there is a housing estate with a large percentage of social housing just round the corner, as is the case with most inner city schools.

Even assuming the change means 25% of children leave the private sector and go to state over the next few years, if you crunch the numbers, you’re probably still looking at a net cash increase of approx £50 for spending on every state pupil in the country.

Now that might not sound a lot, but when you consider that many schools currently lack the resources to spend £5 per pupil for a few pens, pencils, and notebooks - that’s actually a pretty significant and decent result.

And in the mid term it will encourage private schools to offer better value for money to their remaining parents/students. With average private school fees now circa £17,000 compared to to £7,500 for state.

It will be a chance for the private schools to prove their worth. We’re constantly told that the benefit they offer isn’t just about small class sizes and better resources. No, we are told they are more aspirational, have higher standards, better behaviour policy, better teachers etc and THAT is where the difference lies. Well, now they can start reducing their fees and start to prove it.

Let’s see if that £17k is really value for money - considering a parent could opt for a “free” state education AND use that £17k for say 10 private 1-1 hours of tuition per week in any subject or hobby of their choice.

I was referring ironically, not literally (as you well knew) to the comparative cost of state v private education. Even with my state school education, I know that the cost of a year in state school is more than a quid 🙄

And yet Starmer is privately educated himself and hasn’t had the foresight to check that there are even enough school places for all the kids leaving the private sector!

Has he offered to give state schools extra funding to deal with this? No. Is he going to give the teachers a pay rise given the explosion in their own work load that is coming? No.
Has he bothered to pledge to raise standards anywhere? Absolutely not.

I think the thing that frustrates people most about the complaints about VAT on private schools is when parents start saying how “hard they work / how many luxuries they forgo and sacrifices they make”. As though they are particularly unique in doing those things. A single mum who is working two jobs and just getting by is also working hard and making sacrifices. It’s an attitude of complete exceptionalism.

I say this as someone who went to a top London private school, and who (if we can afford it) would send my child to similar. I accept that this is a choice I would be making, and that if we can’t afford it, so be it. I understand what a privilege it is that I can even consider to afford to pay.

And to those mentioning people who move house to get into outstanding states schools, whilst this is true, at least people pay tax (stamp duty) on this choice.

I live in Australia where 40% of kids go to non government secondary schools and the government bloody subsidises them.

The exact same arguments are trotted out if any politician considers reversing the subsidies. But the state system would be overrun! I am saving the country money by sending my kids to a school with an Olympic sized swimming pool and a rowing pavilion.

Based on the Australian experience, private school fees are highly inelastic. Schools put their fees up way in excess of inflation every single year and nobody leaves. There is certainly never a tsunami of kids into the state system. These are just self serving arguments made by people who want to buy their way out of the state system at the cheapest possible price.

And if the VAT does cause some schools to close and some kids to go to the state system, that will be a good thing. The absolute worst thing that can happen to a country’s education system is a proliferation of affordable private schools. The middle classes rush to the ‘better’ option leaving the state system with a disproportionate number of disadvantaged children to educate. I hope the UK manages to avoid Australia’s mistakes.

I've never had 'expensive mobile phones / netflix subscriptions / brand name trainers'. My phone is a 6s given to me by a friend. No subscriptions at all, Netflix or otherwise. I don't buy value brands, but I grow my own veg.

Instead I use every last penny of my income to pay for ds' scholarship place at a school that is a charitable trust.

I haven't been abroad since ds started at the school, my last night out was the works xmas party.

I don't begrudge him a penny, he is where he needs to be, but your sarcasm is distasteful and ignorant.

He isn’t privately educated. He passed the 11+ and the grammar school he was at converted to a private school while the was there. That’s very different.

Well I grew up in a working class house and went to a terrifying comp school where I was regularly assaulted daily. We all were. I wouldn’t have even agreed to HAVE children if I needed to put them through that at eleven years old. It was so damaging.

So whilst you assume private schools are a luxury, for many they are not. If we had safe enough state schools that were academically good enough there wouldn’t be the demand for private schools in the first place!

A single mother with children shouldn’t have to put up with shoddy, dangerous schools - none of us should have to accept that. So why isn’t Labour directing its energy into raising and improving schools rather than simply making the situation even worse in the state sector?

I’m sure there are plenty of parking threads for you to look at.

No, it’s not. He would have decided to stay and pay the fees.

Private school not an option in my house but my God I agree with this. Such a fab post and only a few posts in! It's the hypocrisy I can't stand.
I havent read the entire thread but have seen a few posts from people with young children weighing up the pros and cons of state v private. My kids attended a small primary, fantastic when my eldest attended, youngest had a totally different experience (large age gap). It felt like somewhere I just dropped her off for 6 hours every day. Really hard to engage with teachers, headmistress didn't appear to like children very much and flitted between the other schools within the academy's trust, to the point where lack of leadership became a noticeable problem. I might get shot down for this, but the Senco team appeared to have no knowledge on any issues that children with special needs may face.
We ended up with a tutor and we put a lot of work in ourselves. However, the result of her being in such a lacklustre environment means she just doesn't get the same joy from learning my eldest still does. This is just my experience but I don't think it's unusual.
The tories have a lot to answer for, they have squeezed the life out of everything of any value to society.
So my advice to you OP would be to find the money if you have to 😬.

Extra money in the pot for each kid is not how it's going to be spent though, is it? It's going to be spaffed up the wall on another fruitless recruitment drive and pay for 'breakfast clubs' in primary schools. Most primary schools already provide breakfast for any kid who needs it. Mine already provides toast for every kid who wants it in the morning.

Yes it is a luxury. Many parents cannot afford to send their children to private school.

The Tories didn’t choose austerity because it was fun!! We had no choice! Labour had spent all of the money - don’t remember this??

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election

Actually, I don't even mind that people think they have leveraged working harder than everyone else to earn their economic advantage, people do that all the time to spin their own story into a hero narrative, it's par for the course.

What is pissing me off is this aggressive misreporting that all state schools are awful places which they couldn't possibly send their children to. The idea that somehow they have fell to the bottom of some terrible heap to find themselves a part of the 95% of the population who use state schools.

I still think it's unfair to target education to curry favour with the electorate with little net benefit to the treasury. But I have lost patience with state schools playing the role of the bogeyman in this debate.

Will private nurseries have the 20% VAT added too?

My private school has a nursery as part of the school. Will VAT be exempt on these fees or will they go on all nursery fees too?

Imagine the 4k a month nursery fees with 20% added for most working parents.

My husband works in a private school, his school and its competitors are only just keeping their heads above water as it is due to low numbers, small class sizes, high expenditure, cost of upkeep of vast grounds etc.
I don’t think parents yet realise the effect a 20% increase will have on private schools.
Theres a large amount of parents who can only afford to send their children there because they sacrifice other things in their lives.
Yes, there is a small minority who have money for fun and an increase won’t make any difference to them.
But any drop in numbers will mean the school is unable to continue.

No, we’ll find the money somehow; we are lucky we can do this.

I’ll want my kids in private school more than ever, under a Labour Govt.

The policy will come in, and absolutely nothing will change in state schools. Except maybe more genderwoo shit

Good question. That is very unclear. It will apply to all private nurseries, maybe. So yet again making it impossible for women to work.

So he got the choice to go to grammar school (most don’t) and then was privately educated. I am struggling why that is very different as it seems to be the same to me.

Yes, and there are thousands that are in exactly that position.