How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

Of course it's a sliding scale - that's the point. If you can afford private tutors then, on your logic, some parents will look at you and say "how dare your child have that privilege by luck of their birth to parents who can afford it". In the same way I might, on your logic, look at a kid at Eton and say "how dare they have such privilege".

But paying private tutors will also be subject to Vat.

Some of us are doing exactly that.

I looked at a huge range of state and private schools for DD.

She's on an aptitude place at one of the most sought after comps in the UK.

I probably spend the equivalent of cheap private school fees on extra-curricular and tutoring. For us it works better as I get to hand-pick who teaches her rather than having whoever a school decided to hire.

Added bonus is that she will be able to use the '100% state school educated' line for the future. She does have life-long and serious SEN issues so I reckon it balances out.

Lots of her friends at school have parents with similar incomes etc to ours. They seem to use the money for nice holidays, cars, latest tech and nice clothes.

As far as I'm aware, very very rarely will they charge VAT

Yes we said we'd either spend it on school fees or tutoring and nice holidays etc. I think a lot of people I know make that choice.

Incidentally, the reason quite a lot of parents aren't doing the 'state school plus' model is that both parents want to be able to work full time, and it's not easy to facilitate that kind of arrangement without a SAHP or part timer. (This is the main distinction among the parents I know - either both parents work and child is in private school, or mother stays at home and child does loads of extra curricular and tutoring. Arguably very little difference in wealth or level of privilege between the two.)

Yes, I think private school being a sort of one-stop-shop where children can do all their extra-curricular activities in-house is a big attraction, it can also offset childminding fees so it can make financial sense to a lot of people.

I'm not unsympathetic at all re the potential upheaval for children, just the dominant tone of so many people who are sending their children to private school that characterise people who are for the tax as being somehow spiteful or jealous or less invested in their children's education.

It would be great to see such passion and interest directed to considering how state schools might be improved, given such a huge majority of children are state educated.

Once Labour announce any actual policy proposals for state education (hopefully this is not the sum total of their thinking?!) I am sure it will be hotly debated. This is the only thing they have announced so far, thus the debate.

I think most are against a tax which is likely to have absolutely no net benefit while causing real problems for individual children and families.

It's economically illiterate dog whistle politics. Not exactly an attractive look for an incoming government.

Most won't hit the threshold to be VAT registered.

My daughter's theatre school does though - it started off small and then once it grew they had to start charging VAT.

Labour could start with a commitment to retain the current school budget (adjusted for inflation) despite the reduction in birth rate and school numbers. So the amount of funding per child is increased as numbers fall. Now that would be a positive policy.

Many private school parents have had very hateful personal comments directed at us on this forum. Is there any wonder people believe that a lot of it is fuelled by spite.

I have also made sacrifices for my children and their education.

I gave up my employed role when my youngest was born and became self-employed. This was before WFH was a thing and i wanted flexibility to do pick ups, after school activities.

I worked really hard but no pension, no sick pay, no benefits.

We do not have nice cars or fancy holidays.

I was advised to become a ltd company by my accountant. At the time the tax burden was lower to take account of the fact that self-employed didnt get pension, rights, job security. The government actively encouraged it and said we were driving the economy.

Because of these sacrifices we couldn't afford private school but that was a choice we made.

When DS1 became ill there was no employer to support me.

When Covid hit there was no support for limited company directors. No furlough, no payments.

Now, corporation tax has gone up massively because businesses 'have to pay for the support they received' even though I didn't receive any. Mt pension is still pretty non-existent.

It's gutting and infuriating.

My point is, I made those choices and the fact that a u in government taxation policy means they have backfired financially somewhat is mine to deal with.

I'm not claiming the rest of the world is 'spiteful' or 'immoral' for not rushing to my aid. People on here will just say it was a 'luxury' for me to choose that option and I'll just have to suck it up and try harder.

The Ltd company/dividend tax loophole was just that, a loophole and accountants have been advising people setting up one person ltd companies that it was going to close at some point since 2010. It has nothing to do with covid.

I actually set up my limited company in 2009 because it was the only way I could get childcare vouchers.

Are you saying that i should have planned for hypothetical tax rises and only have myself to blame?

I have seen very few ad hominem comments, more frustrated remarks directly in response to some private school parents making baseless and hysterical bad faith statements that the only reason anyone would support the tax is out of jealousy, suggesting that they are uniquely hard working and self-sacrificing, and saying those who support the tax want poor innocent children to suffer as a tiny number might need to have the same schooling as 95% of the population at a time of glaring child poverty and rampant structural inequalities.

Can you even stop to think what so many private school parents sound like by characterising anyone in support of the tax as 'jealous'? They sound like they think they're better than other people, and frankly quite stupid. That is not a 'hateful personal comment', it's a characterisation of people who make a particular argument.

Well there's been an outline policy in place since January - https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labours-plan-for-schools/

Don’t try to justify bad behaviour. I have had awful personal attacks against me without me ever mentioning jealousy or spite. Someone even started arguing that I had a favourite child because I have one in state and one in private. On and on they went until they were called out by other posters.

VAT is on luxuries. 'Privilege' is not the same as 'luxury' when the state offering is so inadequate. Some people get lucky with their local state offering but many do not.

Yes it is terrible that state schooling is inadequate. I accept paying more tax may be needed, amongst all of the 'wealthy' citizens who's country will be raised by better outcomes. VAT on a dwindling minority will not fix it and is likely to make funding worse as the entire policy is based on a risky finger in the air guess at migration numbers and has not accounted for SEN at all.

How does more kids, some with SEN, moving to state school with no extra money make the situation better, for anyone?

How did I justify bad behaviour? I was specifically talking about general arguments, of which there are far far more than any personalised comments.

We do not have nice cars or fancy holidays.
Because of these sacrifices we couldn't afford private school but that was a choice we made.
Hamster I thought you said you were rich? Also I thought you wouldn’t use private schools even if you could afford them?

Agreed

@Barbadossunset i said by some people's standards we are rich. Our family income
Is above average and we have a small mortgage.

We are rich compared to people surviving on minimum wage, universal credit, visiting food banks.

No i wouldn't have sent my children to private school which is why I made the choices I did.

VAT is on goods and services. State education is a right, if you choose not to avail of it that's your choice to enter a market-driven realm of paying for a service that you can always choose to forego without losing your status as a rights-bearing person.

80% of schools are classified as good or outstanding, so your leap to defining state schooling as 'inadequate' doesn't make sense. For parents who deliberately choose state schools and don't want their children to attend private schools - for whatever reason - state schools are clearly adequate.

Hamster thank you for answering my questions.