You know how a lot of us object to the way grammar run on state money but won't let any old taxpaying idiot in?

[ReallyTired]

Lots of bright state school educated kids fail to get into the local grammar. The places get snapped up by over coached prep school kids.

What do you think?

How very dare they?

Parents that can afford to pay fees should.
Then those of us that don't have the money canstill get a decent education for our children

? I don't understand the thread title. Please explain.

In my borough, the local children are pushed out by children from outside the borough snapping up the places. And the passmark for girls is higher than for boys since were everything else equal, the boys grammar school would have to let in girls unless they adjusted the results.

no round us the private ines tend to stick to private

Our grammars operate catchment areas for the majority of their places ensuring local children get plenty of opportunity
I think the top 120 places from a total of about 1100 are hypothetically available to out of area candidates - but any child sitting the 11 plus could get one of those 120 places, they are results-based

I am being a little bit silly. People complain its unfair that the children of atheists cannot attend popular church schools. I am making the point that many tax payers fund grammar schools that their kids stand no hope of getting into.

Ofcourse grammar schools are results based, but a child with an average IQ who has been in a prep school with only 8 children in the class has a massive advantage over a child whose attends a school that is in a rough area. Many kids at rough state schools get no preparation for the 11+ however bright they are.

Its not an even playing field.

I'm not sure that I agree. We were considering moving to a grammar school area and investigated the local state primary schools - a third of pupils from the state schools were getting into the grammar. The state primaries were also ensuring that the bright kids were coached and prepared for the 11 plus.

It's a thought-provoking issue ReallyTired though, and one that interests me - I don't think the comparatively fair way the grammars work round where I live can be that representative of the system in general.
I went to a girls' grammar in a part of London that has always had plenty of social problems, and the intake at 11 was very socially mixed. We were clearly all there on our own merits, which is just as it should be.
It was a good school academically and pastorally, with a firm but caring ethos. But you know what? We lost almost all of the girls in my year at 16, who were not lucky enough to come from a supportive home environment. I never really thought about this at the time - because you don't as a teenager I suppose. But only about half the Year 7 intake stayed on to 18 and A levels...and they were mostly the ones with plenty of support at home.
There is only so much a school can do, is what I guess I am saying . Even for the brightest of children. Not sure what the answer is.

Exactly osyth. Hereabouts ALL the primaries will prepare children they reckon are in with a chance, for the 11 plus to enter the local grammars.

Hmmm, however, there is a vast discrepancy in the reasoning. The former is an argument that as a secular society, all should be treated equally regardless of religious beliefs. The latter is a socio-economic problem which is both (a) not so black and white and (b) one which is capable of resolution in a way in which a secular vs. religious selection policy is fundamentally incapable of.

My dd's school does not 'support' grammar school coaching so the children are permitted to sit the exam in school time but any coaching has to be done in their own time. Seems fair enough to me.

I did realise that you were joking RT . It is a good discussion though.

And what about all the tax payers who pay for schools - and don't even have any kids?

I think RT was jokingly referencing another thread puppymonkey - some of us realised this sooner than others!

I know she was I saw it!

...the education system is so unequal you would really have to go some, to design, from scratch, oe that was even more unequal.

And you would also be trying to clean the Augean stables if you tried to design one that WAS equal and that people liked and agreed with...and that the pushy parent could not somehow hijack and create an unfair advantage for their kids.

Instead of moaning, try to solve it!

I'm off to do the Gordian knot as I think that simpler.