Stowe Feeders or Godstowe - help desperately needed

[RachelGreensFlair]

Growing up I’d never imagine asking this question, as Independant schools were just a different universe. But since getting a big promotion at work I’m considering my options for DD who is currently 15 months old.

We live in Bucks, and Stowe is our goal (it’s local which helps too), we were initially looking at Ashfold School, but when looking at the good schools guide we then moved our attention to Godstowe.

However after reading a bit from past MN posts about the school I am concerned they usually feed other girls schools in the High Wycombe area, and since they are non selective it might not be the best move if Stowe is the end goal.

Which has then led to us now looking at Swanbourne House or Winchester House (although Winchester is further away) as they feed Stowe.

But this is an absolute minefield, I have no family or friends who have gone this route so I wanted to ask here - has anyone got any advice, should I go with one of the Stowe feeder schools, is Godstowe excellent and worth it even if DD doesn’t then go onto Stowe. I am ambitious and want the same for her, so I feel a bit uneasy with Godstowe being a bit ‘for all’ in terms of her being pushed to her full potential.

I am also not sure how this process works, do I need to register DD now, even though I’d not like her to start until pre prep, are wait lists long etc.

thanks in advance - I really appreciate any guidance in this area

@ElsaLion How many DDs do local primaries get to Wycombe Abbey? Stowe is entry at 13 - the local primaries don’t go to y8. What’s she supposed to do for y.7-8? Of course parents plan! State parents do not need to unless they don’t want a certain secondary (non grammar) as catchment counts in Bucks. However many Godstowe parents have planned where DDs might go or why pay for Godstowe? Ditto the schools affiliated to Stowe. You might not want to spend your money but the OP wants to consider how to spend hers.

Then 'DD' can easily spend Yr 7 at a state secondary, and enter into Stowe in Yr 8 - it's not rocket science! Many other counties still have a three tiered system, where children move from a lower secondary to higher secondary/college to commence their GCSE year. This would normally be the time when those destined for the local private schools begin.

An academically 'gifted' child can easily make the transition from state sector to private. Prep schools are often a waste of money and don't provide much more than a good/outstanding state primary would, with the academic difference between the two being negligible.

Stowe starts in Y9 and virtually no one wants a Bucks Sec Mod who wants Stowe!! Of course this isn’t an option. Maybe don’t comment if you don’t know the schools? @ElsaLion You clearly have no idea about the difference between Godstowe and a state primary! I’ve used both and I do know.

Another one saying she’s very little and what suits her at 7, 11 or 13 may not be what you think will now. Being ‘gifted’ at 15 months also won’t necessarily translate into being good at exams, they really do all develop at different stages at that age. Would second the link to neurodiversity someone flagged above - my DD was ‘ahead’ when tiny and now at 7 is waiting for assessment for possible ASD or ADHD. What I’d thought would be the perfect school won’t work at all for her so looking elsewhere for juniors. Yes she’s still ‘exceeding’ academically but that is less of an issue than finding the right environment for her from a sensory / emotional perspective.

I’ve met dc reading well at 4. Years ahead at maths at 8. They just whiz off to Oxbridge. Honestly OP, don’t assume there’s anything wrong and loads of people plan. Why would you not when nursery decisions need to be made? Not every seemingly bright child is sen!

If you have indeed used both, then you would know that the difference in outcomes between Godstowe and an outstanding state primary is negligible.

Reality check - my two cousins attended Godstowe, their younger sibling attended an outstanding state primary 10 minutes away. Who excelled academically, achieved top results at GCSE/A-level, and a double first from Cambridge? The cousin who attended the state primary.

As I said, the differences in the longer-term are negligible, except for the huge amount of money that OP would be wasting.

@ElsaLion ? DD2 did not do sats at Godstowe. No idea how you compare.

She did have a swimming pool, various sports teams, music practice rooms, fantastic drama, fabulous facilities and a friendly caring school. I didn’t pay to have the same as a state primary,

As a state school governor for many years I really do know the difference. You also get specialist teachers, eg decent art, and no behaviour issues. I really can compare and not everyone has access to an outstanding school. Most aren’t and some that are won’t be in the future. If you want a 13 plus school, you need a prep. It’s that simple. People at Godstowe have this route planned.

DD1 was in a state school until y6. I really do know the difference! Chalk and cheese. She enjoyed her primary but it had limitations! Most do when compared to Godstowe.

Not true to say no behaviour issues in private schools.

No behaviour issues at Independent schools? My friend's dc who are at Stowe (since that's the school in discussion) have had numerous friends/peers suspended and expelled over the last 2 years. This has on the whole been for vaping and smoking in school. There is poor behaviour in every school to some degree.

Stowe is not hard to get into. If she’s already showing signs of being gifted you would be best to look for somewhere more academic.

@Rumpoleoftheballet
The schools under discussion are feeders to Stowe and Godstowe. None will have behaviour issues that can be seen in state schools. DC at Stowe won’t be much different to any boarding school where smoking and vaping are found. DD2 boarded where it was clear where pupils smoked. Depends on attitude of school. However if you read about behaviour in some state schools (probably not Bucks schools) you will find violence, rudeness to teachers, and other disruptive behaviour at a lower level that’s largely absent in private schools.

You're very spikey in some of your responses however please do accept my apologies for the mix up between 'schools under discussion' 🙄.

Many of us have had/do have children at state and independent so can also have valid opinions and experiences that you seem all too willing to shut down. I do happen to know of violence within Bucks schools, predominantly one of the highest regarded grammars that occurs on a reasonably frequent basis. It can happen anywhere. Independent and state grammar can have their fair share but perhaps to a lesser extent or it's well covered up.

I don’t think most parents think there’s violence at the same level at independent schools. In my former career, I dealt with excluded dc in terms of finding them new schools. If they were adults, some would have ended up in court. Any child who is violent should be excluded and if schools don’t deal with it, bigger fool them. Intelligence doesn’t make much difference!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/blundells-school-hammer-attack-devon-b2559928.html

@OhCrumbsWhereNow I think other teachers have been killed. It’s unusual and tragic but proves nothing. It’s a very very rare case. As is the death of anyone at a school. That’s not really what anyone is talking about.

This research is interesting www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2020/research/private-school-development/

The IOE at UCL says the dc at private schools get better results. They believe it’s driven by better resources. You would not expect academics to agree would you? Most parents believe they can take care of the former concerns highlighted by York, but desperately want the latter advantage highlighted by the Institute of Education.

I would definitely choose Swanbourne House or Winchester House. Because they are the prep schools within the Stowe Group, you'll get a discount on Stowe fees if you have been in one of the two prep schools for two years plus. That will mitigate the VAT being added. And, if your daughter does turn out to be very gifted, then both schools will faciliate entry to a different, more selective Senior School eg Wycombe Abbey, Rugby, Headington or Oundle. Or they will encourage her down an academic scholarship route, to Stowe or elsewhere.

Stowe has lots of very academic children who have won top scholarships. But it is almost non selective (you have to be able to cope with the curriculum so there is a minimum academic standard but it's not hard for most to get in). That means that their success is in their value added. There's no point in comparing it to somewhere like Wycombe Abbey - the same very bright child would do equally well in both schools but, as all the children at somewhere like Wycombe Abbey are very bright, then Stowe looks bad in comparison, even if it's enabled many significantly below average children to achieve solidly average GCSE grades.

Swanbourne feels very much like a mini Stowe - non selective, great Arts, lots of sport, beautiful rural setting, PSB curriculum reflecting Stowe's Changemaker Values perfrectly, Stowe links everywhere.

Winchester House is a bit different - no Saturday school, more urban setting, still non selective but probably more academic as still does Common Entrance. Less developed Arts but I think Sport is probably better than Swanbourne's. Also lots of Stowe branding.

Hello, I’m a bit late to the party but as Godstowe parent I thought I’d add my thoughts.

Plenty of parents travel to Godstowe so a 45 min journey is not unusual at all but many are right in saying that the hill can get very congested so it can be a bit hit or miss on timings but they do do an “early bird” breakfast that might be useful for you and they have excellent after school clubs.

Godstowe is very popular so although it is non selective it is sometimes hard to get a place as it’s so popular. Particularly for prospective co-ed pupils as not many girls schools go to 13. It is an amazing school and our girls are so well educated that often when they go in to their next school you find they are back peddling whilst the others catch up.

Most pupils I’d say go on to board at various schools. It is often seen as a feeder for Wycombe Abbey but as many will have noticed WA has had some bad press over the years and although it remains a top school WA have had quite a few issues with people leaving and unrest within the school (it is very high pressured). Stowe, whilst a lovely school is considered very much the lower end of ability so whilst it looks terribly impressive it isn’t where you’d expect to send a “gifted child”. Although, in all honesty I really don’t think anyone could possibly pin point a child at 15 months and map out their entire school life from what her nursery tell you! Children change all the time. She could of course be leaps and bounds ahead of others as a toddler but be at a totally different point at school age. Absolutely no reflection on you wanting to do your best by her.

Godstowe would be an excellent start for her though and then you will know where to look for the next school she needs based on her abilities over the years there. We had assumed both I Ute daughters would go to WA, they both passed the entrance exam but with the previous Prime Ministers daughter attending it was a bit of a nightmare at the school not to mention some hugely worrying pastoral issues it has had over the past few years. A lot has been kept quiet but being up the road and with many friends with daughters there we are privy to really what goes on (think alcohol/vaping/sick bay full of stressed girls and a tragedy a couple of years ago). There are many excellent girls and co-ed schools to choose from and Godstowe won’t have any problem getting the right pupils on to their next school. By then who knows what private schools will be doing with what this current labour government are doing to us!! But for you looking to start school at age4/5 Godstowe is an excellent choice.

Good luck and best wishes for your little girl!

With your timings I think you must live very close to me. When we moved here we did a round trip back to Wycombe for my daughter's nursery - it was fine, but I am glad we did not choose to do that for school. Having local friends has been very important in primary school. My husband still works in Wycombe and traffic can be hideous - it is more often over an hour than 45 minutes. I know the SENCO at Swanbourne. She is very good should it turn out your daughter is ND, so I would recommend from that point of view. My own daughter was speaking in 3-4 word sentences at 15 months and as it turns out, is in fact autistic but still very academic, just not quite as much of a genius as we thought she was at the time. I mention it because I wish someone had mentioned it to me at the time. An assessment at 15 months is very likely too early. Your daughter may have other talents that may also feed into the appropriate senior school decision (music, performing arts, sports).

If anyone's still reading this thread I can say that Godstowe is an excellent school. My daughter is 11 now and has been there since she was 4. Absolutely loves it. It is not selective (no prep schools are, surely?) but that doesn't mean it is not excellent, academically. It pushes all girls and many go on to top schools like Wycombe Abbey, Downe House and Wellington, ((very)hard to get into), plus lots of other amazing (boarding) schools like Marlborough, Bradfield and Stowe (slightly easier to get into in terms of academic grades, but also brilliant). Many girls also go onto local Grammar, and other local-ish independent (boarding and non boarding) schools like Headington, Queen Annes etc. It attracts local girls as well as international boarders from far afield. Many international boarders have their sights on Wycombe Abbey and similar. It is rare to find a girls' prep school with years 7&8 supporting 13+ senior schools. I can't recommend Godstowe enough. It has been an amazing preparation for my daughter who will go on to her top choice amazing senior school at 13. My advice for anyone considering school pathways is that it depends so much on the character of your child. Temperament, learning style, personality all play a huge role in choosing a school. There's a reason schools want you to register in years 5, 6 onwards, - because it takes a while for learning style, and school preferences to develop. We chose our daughter's senior school based on factors we would not have known before she was 9 or 10.

Also the comment in this thread about proximity to prep school - I agree. Living very close to Godstowe, it's been amazing to pop along to school for pickups, or if we forgot something, - and as people say, for playdates. There's time for longer commutes as they get older.

If you are looking for a great prep near Stowe, Winchester House in Brackley is lovely too.

If you are 45mins from school just remember there are other families who are 45mins the other way which means playdates 1.5hrs away.. believe me this will wear thin fast.

She is very young and you've no idea what she will be like in 5 or 10 years time so don't overthink things.

My understanding is Stowe is not academic. Is your child is bright you probably won't want her to go there in any case...

There are some excellent comprehensive schools, which prepare your child for the world and its range of people and situations. Try it ... you may get great academic results and a happy child!
( Plus ssh whisper it, but universities will ' take into account' a posh private school applicant' s advantage ... believe me!)