Bursary question

[Mayhemmumma]

I've approached a school about my DD applying for a scholarship for year 9 (she's currently in year 7)

I've explained I would also need to apply for a bursary if she were successful.

They've invited her in to view school now - they are aware I would need a bursary and DD can't apply for scholarship until year 9.

Can anyone tell me about any details they require for bursary - I understand the assessments is thorough and I wanted to know a rough estimate for salary thresholds etc. I've asked the school and read website and policy but figures are not specified, I just need an idea as to what a school might be looking for and whether this is realistic for us.

We are in the south.

It's impossible to say what the salary thresholds might be as every school is different. Is it London or outside London? This would make a big difference.

Not London in Sussex.

I'm just trying to guess an average as there is so little detail in the school information. Our joint income is about 75k (self employed) we have solid equity in house but too low an income to increase our mortgage.

If you need both a burdary and a scholarship, is this feasabje? Are these awarded for the life of the school journey or reassessed annually? If re-assessed, can you afford the fees?

If I were you, I would email the bursar and admissions team and ask them the question making it clear that you need to know before DD comes to view the school as you don't want to get her hopes up if the financial position will not allow her to take up the place.

Obviously you will need to have an in depth conversation with them and disclose details of both incomings and outgoings for them to estimate what you may be offered. You will also have to do this every year, and supply bank statements etc to back it up. However, unless your financial position or the school's financial position is likely to change considerably you can be fairly confident that any bursary given will remain similar while your daughter is at the school.

The scholarship would be fixed year 9-11 and so I wasn't expecting to be asked to come in to discuss year 8, I was completely upfront that we would need to apply for a bursary.

I just have no idea at all about thresholds, realistically we could only afford 50%, if I had a figure in mind I could work from it would save heart ache and faff of applying or not.

All I've been told is that decision is independent to head teacher, that there is a financial assessment and she would be considered.

DD is very able academically and with art, but I wouldn't want her to have hopes up.

Why can't they just say that families earning below x amount will be considered? Has anyone gained a good bursary and would be willing to share their income?

Why can't they just say that families earning below x amount will be considered? Has anyone gained a good bursary and would be willing to share their income?

It's not as simple as this. And it makes no difference what bursary people have been awarded at a different school since they will all have different criteria. You need to talk to the bursar at the actual school you need a bursary from.

Agree, you need to have a frank conversation about your situation and Income/assets with the school bursar.

Increasingly scholarships have less monetary value and are more about extension opportunities. Are conditions attached to a scholarship?

How many bursaries are awarded at 13+, is there a flexible fund or more limited. Do they award few large amounts or more lower. How often is one reviewed and against what criteria? Some schools contract out the assessment process.

It's different for every school but in the specific school I know about, that level of income would probably be in the bracket for a bursary of around 30-40%. As a rule of thumb the school will generally reckon that you "can afford" at least £2k per year more than you think is the most you can afford. The actual details will depend on the size of the school's bursary pot and their own strategic decisions about whether to use that to give large bursaries to a small number of much poorer kids or a much more modest level of support to a larger number of middle-income-family kids.

The bursary application form may specifically ask for a lot of details that will be "not applicable" for most people e.g. list any assets or property held in other countries which I guess is to prevent people from qualifying for bursaries when they are in fact quite wealthy. Some will also ask about assets held by grandparents and will ask why those funds aren't being used. Which is a fair question given that a lot of kids in private schools are paid for by grandparents but "because it's their money and they don't want to fund privaye education on principle" is an acceptable answer. If either parent isn't working full time you will be expected to justify why (e.g. if there are caring responsibilities).

Filling in the form is arduous but it's not a value judgement they just need complete information because there will be many other applicants just as bright and able as your DD all needing the same level of support and only enough funds to support a few of them and the more questions they ask the better the basis for the decision.

It is not just about income though. You have to look at your assets and outgoings for “reasonableness”. I used to audit bursary applications and the sorts of things that would be taken into account are:

Large amounts of equity in property that well exceeds the needs of the family. Three of you in a 2/3 bed terrace is fine. Three of you in a four bed plus detached house would be seen as a lifestyle choice and you would be expected to release equity. If you have a short term left on your mortgage then you would be expected to remortgage over a longer time period so you still pay the same but over more years. I suspect this will be the area you need to look at most closely.

Driving Range Rovers and other flashy cars, even on lease. You could make cheaper choices.

Multiple holidays each year. Or eating out lots, spending lots on leisure activities etc.

Significant pension overpayments / top ups. You are expected to have a pension but not make additional contributions over the norm.

One parent not working / working only part time.

So the income part is only a small section of what is considered. In some parts of the south, a combined income of £75k doesn’t go that far (which sounds bonkers) But take a look at what you’re spending as well as what’s coming in.

Ok that's helpful thank you. Dibble good food for thought - I wonder how all of those points are measurable? we both work, don't have pensions, basic car/van, no holidays abroad, no grandparents financial assistance but we do have a lot of equity in our house - it's 3 bed for 3 people but it's worth a lot more than our (fairly big) mortgage. We're not going to sell but can see this might be a problem.

Schools have different criteria for measuring housing equity. Obviously a three bedroom house in central London costs a lot more than a three bedroom place in rural Norfolk. Bursars do take into account the local housing market - they expect you to live somewhere. By us, a three bedroom place can easily reach £1m.

However, if you live in a £1m house with a £500k mortgage, then you technically have £500k. It’s just tied up in your property. Ask yourself, if bursaries are there to help those who need it financially, are you REALLY in need? No. You have £500k sat there. They will also look at remaining mortgage term. 25 years left gives less scope for a remortgage vs 10 years when you absolutely would be expected to remortgage.

If, however, you had a £750k mortgage on the same property with 25 years still left then this would be looked at differently.

The bursar should have a document that lists all the information required for a bursary application which will give you an idea as to what the school takes into consideration. Bursars are very lovely and all information is confidential. Just email them and ask for the details.

However, if you live in a £1m house with a £500k mortgage, then you technically have £500k. It’s just tied up in your property. Ask yourself, if bursaries are there to help those who need it financially, are you REALLY in need? No. You have £500k sat there. They will also look at remaining mortgage term. 25 years left gives less scope for a remortgage vs 10 years when you absolutely would be expected to remortgage.

This would not be the case at the independent school where I have experience of bursaries. They would not be expecting you to remortgage as this would push up your outgoings, possibly beyond affordability. They would only be interested if you live in a house that is obviously much larger than you need to live comfortably and could therefore downsize without increasing your costs.

So it's as I said before, each school is different and the only thing anyone can really do is talk to the bursar at the actual school or schools you are considering and be prepared to give them some detail.

@TheRainItRaineth If you have a long period remaining on your mortgage then yes. But if your mortgage is 10 years or less then there’s a very strong case for remortgaging that property over 25 years, taking out some of the equity, and still paying the same amount. Or moving to interest only for the period when school fees are covered.

Like I said, all schools are different.

But if your mortgage is 10 years or less then there’s a very strong case for remortgaging that property over 25 years, taking out some of the equity, and still paying the same amount. Or moving to interest only for the period when school fees are covered.

All I can say is that absolutely wasn't even suggested in the instance I am thinking about, which did involve a short period remaining on the mortgage and substantial equity in the house.

It was at three of the London schools I worked for though…….. If people can live in £5m houses with heaps of equity in them then they won’t be getting a bursary, regardless of how little income they have coming in or astronomical mortgage costs.

Like I said, every school is different and the only way to know is to ask the bursar!

Yes, the school I am thinking of is also in London.

I am sure anyone in a £5m house is perfectly capable of finding a £4m house to suit their needs and freeing up cash for school fees, should they have a large percentage of equity. A £5m house isn't essential to anyone. But a person living in a three bedroomed house in Sussex almost certainly isn't in possession of a £5m house! And there are plenty of houses, even in London, even near to desirable schools, worth a lot less than that.

Anyway, I do agree that the only way to actually find out is to contact the school directly and ask.

It really varies from school to school. My 3 all had scholarship/ bursary combination to 97% -100%. But we had very low income. NMW/ tax credits. They asked for income/ expenditure form. Although reviewed annually, our circumstances were static.

I’m so interested and sorry if this comes across as nosy. But if your on NMW/tax credits, did you simply just apply to the school bursary to see what they could offer?

I have only come to realise recently that private school might be an option if I apply for a bursary. I just thought I might be laughed out the building if I can’t afford the fees.

i hope this doesn’t come across rude. I’m just trying to work out my options. (Single parent and I worry about affording mortgage and fees- their dad doesn’t seem keen to help although he has significant equity in his house)

We contacted the schools and asked if they had funds for bursaries. We were asked to apply, and our children we invited for assessment days/ exams. We were sent forms for bursaries. They then made an offer. Older schools often have funds available through specific funds. Historically, some were founded, ironically, to provide education for the poor and have invested funds with specific criteria.
It was a bit hit and miss looking to start with. It's not something that is advertised. As you see on here on threads many do view it as 'can you afford it if you can't pay' or 'your children will be different' but we didn't get any issues over that. The cohorts can be as diverse as state schools.

Thanks track trail, yes I've tried to start threads on this but it isn't met well - it's my child who's been invited to apply based on merit, I am well aware I can't afford private school but want to try if it means she has a better senior school experience.

I would have preferred to avoid her going in/getting hopes up before I've had a chance to talk about specifics re money but it seems unavoidable.

I would have preferred to avoid her going in/getting hopes up before I've had a chance to talk about specifics re money but it seems unavoidable.

Just ring them up today and say that you'd prefer not to get her hopes up if the finances are not going to work and would it be possible to come in yourself asap to discuss finances in more detail. It is completely fine for you to say that you don't want your daughter to view the school until this has been sorted out.

Yes, they are potentially doing you a favour but you are also doing them a favour in supplying them with a clever child who will no doubt boost their stats. You don't just have to roll over and do everything they say! They won't be able to give you a definite figure but they should be able to say eg 60-70% is likely (or whatever).

Don`t most of the schools use BAL and similar companies that can do thorough credit report and access all mortgages, assets etc? I will be surprised if schools rely only on the information the applicants provide

Each school is different. Like a previous poster, I was a single parent on NMW, I achieved 100% bursaries at 2 schools from year 5 - year 13 in Sussex. You have to be prepared to have open and lengthy conversations with the school. The bursars are lovely and will be more than willing to have this conversation, particularly if you even accepting a place is dependent on the level of bursary available. In my case, I submitted the lengthy forms and they gave me the outcome before DS even visited. They even decided that they didn't need details of ex husbands income as he flatly refused to provide them and made it very clear he wouldn't pay anything (not all schools will do this, the bursary application makes it very clear if you're expected to include both parents information even if you are divorced. In my case I had a court judgement which made it very clear I had no access to that information)
Always be aware that bursary pots are finite, so it does depend on how many applications the school receive, schools would rather give out 4 bursaries at 25 % rather than 1 at 100% , they are after all a business.
Ring the bursar as they are the only person who can answer your quwstions