PTFA - what the heck is a quorum?

[onesixth]

The current PTFA is made up of 6 committee members: chair, secretary, treasurer, community liaison, communications officer, and refreshments coordinator.

The current chair, treasurer and refreshments coordinator all have children in Y5/6 and have made it known that they would like to step down between now and the end of next year.

I have been secretary for less than a year, and am concerned that we are not actually running the PTFA legitimately. I have been reading about a quorum in our constitution:

There is a quorum at a general meeting if the number of
members personally present is a least three times the number of Committee Members in office at the commencement of the meeting.

There are only 7 (max 8) attendees (including the committee) at any meetings, including the AGM. Am I right in understanding that if we were to have 3 elected committee members, that at least 6 non-committee members need to attend? As a committee of 6, should we have 12 non-committee members attend meetings?

We are a school of 200+ pupils and raise a few thousand each year, every penny of which I truly believe is invested appropriately. This year we have a huge (£10-20k) fundraising objective and I am really stressing about the details going forward.

I can't see any guidance on following constitutions - are they legally binding? Or just advisory? Ours was written in 2004! Is this something we need to update?

I do have other questions, and would appreciate some sage advice from experienced PTFA members.

https://www.parentkind.org.uk/about-us/news-and-blogs/blog/what-is-a-pta-constitution-and-why-do-you-need-one

Oh wow this brings it all back to me- former PTA chairperson etc but it’s all a while ago now. This site looks helpful and our actually council did have formal guidelines found On their website in the education section so it’s worth checking your local authority website.

I really disappointed this wasn't a sweary thread about PTAs 😂😂😂

What does the F stand for?

As for a quorum, write your own rules, no one will be remotely worried or concerned

Well, you can’t compel people to attend (although it’s tempting!) so I am not sure what steps you are supposed to take to ensure a quorum.

Obviously that clause is intended to prevent a small group taking over all the decision making, but in the absence of much interest then I don’t think there’s much you can do? 😂

I suggest that you make sure that all meetings are minuted and circulated to the wider body, explicitly encouraging people to come forward if they have questions or concerns about any item.

If a decision is controversial you could always put out a survey for a vote.

Haha! It very well could have been! My eyes have been opened... 👀

Ours has always been a PTFA... parents, teachers, friends. I genuinely cannot get to grips with the differences between members, committee, non-committee, co-opted... What a brain ache!

Well good luck! But honestly just do your best, no one is checking up on you

There will probably be a section in the constitution about committee meetings and the quorum for that. It may well only be two or three members of the committee.
Then there is the section about general meetings. These usually need to be held once a year but may also have to be held if specific things are being agreed. The constitution will say what those specific things are. The quorum for the general meeting is bigger as the idea is that that is the more public meeting where you engage with the wider school community rather than it just being the same committee members which can become a bit of an echo chamber. Getting people to actually attend the general meeting can be a complete nightmare.
What sort of entity are you? Are you a charitable incorporated organisation or limited by guarantee or something else?

Do you have general meetings other than the AGM?
The quorum relates to general meetings not committee meetings.
For AGMs you are supposed to encourage as many members as possible to attend. They vote on motions.

Is your PTA a registered Charity? I'd check out the Charity commission website and the rules around how it should be run there.

The quorum thing only relates to the AGM. Just have your Chair, Treasurer and Secretary as the official committee members, then you only need 6 other people to be quorate. The other people can obviously carry on doing their jobs, but they don't need to be official committee members.

Our local primary holds the annual general meeting in the middle of their (very popular) quiz night, which guarantees more than enough attendance.
Are there any other existing events with good attendance? Parents' information evenings, assemblies, sports day? Tack it on when there's a captive audience. Even better if they have some trapped time - eg we had sports day starting at 9.30, so it would give the parents something to do between drop-off and the event starting.

If there are 6 people on the committee, you need 18 people in total to have a quorum for a general meeting. A general meeting is a meeting for the membership as a whole to make decisions (e.g. the AGM). This quorum is irrelevant for committee meetings, even if they are open for other members to attend. So, for example, if there is an announcement that there will be a committee meeting on Monday and members are welcome to attend, that is a committee meeting and this quorum does not apply.

I'm surprised by some of the 'do what you like' responses. If your PTA is a charity then it will be governed by the Charity Commission and if you're an alected Secretary etc then you have a legal position as a trustee. Generally that doesn't make much day to day difference, but it means you have serious legal responsibility if something goes wrong (eg financial mismanagement or a serious health and safety or GDPR breach). It was one if the reasons why I never wanted to hold a formal PTA position.

The OP isn’t necessarily a trustee, just because she is a committee member - although it would make sense for her to be one.

She would probably already know if that was the case as she would have needed to agree for her name, address and DOB to be provided to the Charity Commission (not visible online, but they hold this information).

The charity commission guidelines on the quorum for meetings are here. As you can see, it is quite light-touch and refers back to each charity’s governing document - which the OP is already working to.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-meetings-making-decisions-and-voting

This only applies if the PTFA is a registered charity. Many are not.

Ok;

Quorum: 3 times the number of officials - so three officials = 9 parents for any decision made at General Meeting.

There should also be a quorum for committee decisions - could be a simple majority & could have the Chair as the casting vote in a tie.

Types of person:

Trustee - they're listed as being responsible and would be held to account if the money went missing, for example.

A Trustee can hold an officer role (Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, etc), but it's in the interests to have enough people that there isn't the possibility for one person/one and their husband/and her best friend to spunk the money on a unicorn drawn diamond coach for their kid's year group prom whilst technically adhering to the Law.

Appointments - the constitution should specify the structure and duration of office. Some roles will be voted in by the committee, some by the parents/members of the association. A co-opted person is one who is appointed to the committee without an general vote, usually because of skills such as finance.

To avoid the situation where nobody is available to approve payments/releasing funds to the school, you need to get replacements lined up in advance of the current ones leaving, as you can't take everybody off and then expect to be able to access the funds; you won't be allowed to.

If you wish to amend the Constitution (which sounds like it might be a plan), you'd need to persuade 9 parents to come along to a meeting to vote on it.

However, the risk is that this will result in one person bringing along 38 mates for one evening just to get their hands on the Library/etc funds for next year's unicorn coach as their kid is currently in Year 5 and hates the current Head because she didn't give her eldest child the role of Mary in the Reception Nativity 13 years ago when she was an NQT.

TBH, this sort of thing can be a complete nightmare. Especially as people tend to not like being told 'No, that would be illegal even if you are a volunteer and do all this work for the children for no reward and nobody else was there making the calls to get tombola prizes and the teachers didn't want to do another 4 hours at school for free to make tea for the Quiz Night and Barn Dance and you just want to make children happy and you're not appreciated. It's still illegal and we can't do it'.

Well exactly @prh47bridge. It could be an unincorporated association instead. I was replying to the post above.

I am sure that the OP knows the type and nature of the organisation with which she has become involved?

@onesixth I would try and get the PTFA to join Parentkind. They offer advice to PTAs. You should know if you are a charity and you should be able to use a standard constitution.

Normally one Agm open to all members is enough. You don’t need anyone other than the committee at meetings because you are delegated to take decisions.

Not being quorate at the AGM just means no decisions can be made. There’s also ways to get people to attend. Definitely insert it into another event! Circulate everything in good time and whizz through the agenda. You should have a decent sized committee and it should not just be officers - chair, treasurer, secretary. However look at templates for a PTA and see what meets your needs.