Talk me through a teachers work load… why is it so hard?

[Mummame2222]

So, I adore my kids primary school teachers, they are all wonderful. I admire the work they do, I could never, ever do their job.

I supported all the strikes and believe teachers when they say they are overworked and underpaid.

I’m just curious how their time is spent. The holidays you have off each year does this average out your working week? So say you work 60+ hours during term time, what are you doing during half terms and school holidays?

Just trying to get a better understanding of how their job is so difficult, and like I said, I believe them and support them, I would just like to be better equipped and more knowledgeable when I stick up for them as the inevitable ‘yeah they get so much holiday’ argument always comes up when I try to!

It was a vocation they chose to go into.

And now people are choosing not to.

You might want to read this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5035211-england-is-running-out-of-teachers

@Timeforachocolate you're 100% right, we don't get paid for the holidays! Our salary is worked out minus the holidays. 👍

OMFG.

The fact that you think comparing your mother's job in the 60s with teaching today is valid is mind-blowing.

It’s always been that teachers have to do marking and lesson prep outside of teaching hours though. My mother was a teacher in the 60’s and did this. You are well aware of this before you train. I guess it depends on your ability and organisation skills as to how long this takes.
With all due respect education is very different now than it was in the 60s.

Many of us have experienced a big shift in the field in the last 10-20 years.

Seeming to imply that people currently in the profession only have workload issues because they're not very organised is silly.

@SingsongSu one of my best friends was a teacher and is now a nurse! She says the latter is far easier in terms of work life balance, mainly because she takes no work home. She'd never go back to teaching, and she's working gruelling shifts in an understaffed hospital!

@SingsongSu that said, I could never do nursing as I'd find the day job so so intense. I find nurses incredible. I couldn't do it! Different people suit different jobs!

OK, I'm in an independent school, Physics, year 9 to 13, each differs, but probably looks different to state colleagues.

My day starts at 7.45 and never ends before 6 on a weekday, Saturday varies depending on fixtures.

7.45 Breakfast
8.15 staff meeting
8.45 registration
9.00 assembly
9.10 until 11.00 teaching or on a free
11.00 until 11.20 break (often on duty)
11.20 until 13.00 teaching or on free
13.00 until 14.20 lunch (often on duty or running a lunch club)
14.20 until 15.00 teaching or on a free
15.00 until 15.20 afternoon break (never on duty)
15.20 until 16.50 teaching or on a free
15.50 until 17.00 collection or boarders tea
17.00 until 18.00 prep
twice a week I then do...
18.00 until 18.30 dinner
18.30 until 22.00 boarders free time (supervising or drinking tea or both!!)
22.00 until 23.00 late duty (sat in the house office chatting to the matrons)

Marking generally is done on a Sunday, 4 to 6 hours normally

First two weeks of most holidays we run 9 til 5 holiday clubs.

Admin is very limited, we do a three hour safeguarding course annually and a day of first aid.

The school doesn't require lesson plans, so each department has a broad scheme of work and you take it from there, some staff like individual lesson plans, fair play, I use a card index card with the key points I want to hit, we don't have to do WALT/WILF and all that jazz (or whatever the current version is)

We get OFSTED for boarding only, the rest is inspected by ISI, 22 years and I've had 2 in house observations lasting less than 10 mins each and one ISI chap who came in and had a good chat with me about rugby (which I don't teach)

In that regard, although a very busy job, there is no stress and the admin is probably at the level a state sector teacher experienced in the 1960s.

Worth re-iterating all Indies are not made the same.

Hahaha I was wondering if indeed they were, not that they should be.

I have a colleague who works as a postie over the summer and at xmas, so some have other jobs in the holidays!

This thread has made me think about the impact of teaching on my 'downtime' as well. When I worked in an office job, I often went out and did things on week nights. I was in a choir and an amdram group and also met up with friends after work. I would also go out for Sunday lunch with friends and while away the afternoon in the pub. When I became a teacher (still pre-kids at this point), all of this stopped. I was way too exhausted on weeknights to go out, and was doing marking and planning all day Sunday. I was much happier in my job because I love teaching and I love my subject, but the impact on the rest of my life was massive. The holidays became the only time I could do these normal things.

Honestly, it depends on the type of school you’re in and your subject as to where the hours are concentrated. In primary, there’s not a great deal of marking but there’s a lot of extra curricular time taken up. In secondary, it’s endless marking and planning. Obviously, the marking is more time intensive in essay subjects. When I worked in very academic schools, I didn’t spend a huge amount of time planning in term time (other than for A level) but I would spend half my holidays doing new schemes of work with lessons to accompany them (secondary teachers more commonly use their own resources). I did, however, spend my entire life during term time marking (literally, starting at 715 in school, teaching all day then marking until 10ish). In less academic schools, I spent a lot more time planning and a lot less marking but the planning could mostly be done in the holidays rather than after school. I used to try and use one week of Easter and Christmas for myself and work the other week. In the summer, I would take 3 weeks for myself and spend most of the rest working. Half terms were mostly spent working with a day or two taken off. Once I had children I had to pull back but it did not go down well with my HOD.

Don't worry about the ' So much holiday' argument. I think we can stick up for ourselves ! I did 40 years . I always just said there's loads of vacancies you know and loads of different training routes now - do you want me to help you apply ????Found that shut them.up :)

Teaching isn't a vocation. I'm not giving up all my worldly goods for it. It's a job.

The "vocation" thing is a strategy to get us to feel guilty for not doing enough.

It's never enough.

Planning - we had to produce a lesson plan on the template for each lesson in a day, with differentiation planned for each SEN child individually.
Resourcing - have to photocopy everything x number of children in your class, and each paper that goes into books has to be trimmed (A4 paper does not fit) & glued in if you are teaching the younger years in the books. I also had continuous provision to prepare (themed activities on tuff trays)
Slides for each lesson need to be planned and made.
Each SEN child has an individual learning plan ILP - you have to review and write targets x 3 a year.
Staff Meeting 1 day after school each week
’Directed time’ usually with your department/age group after school 1 day per week.
Displays - we had to have a ‘Learning Journey’ showing what we taught each week and samples of the children’s work copied, backed and displayed. Plus Maths and English ‘working walls’
Marking & feedback with evidence of children acting on your feedback
Book Looks - member of SLT comes 1 day after school and checks your books are within school guidelines and are showing progress
Pupil Progress Meeting - meeting where you have to bring samples of work from different ability groups in your class to discuss with SLT
Observation & Review days - you might have a whole day on SEN for instance where SLT will check on SEN progress within all classes in the school.
parents evening, reports, sports day, performances….
oh and all of that needs to be done when you are not teaching, so not between 9 and 3, apart from PPA, which for us was 1 afternoon a week (1-3)

We were also not allowed to use websites like twinkl & worksheets were frowned upon. I used to get in for 7:15 and leave at 5. My TA’s worked 9-3:15 so it was all down to me.

I am a secondary head

At my desk at 7.30am, leave around 6pm.

Work approx 6 hours over the weekend.

However salary is good £110k

On average I work a 10 hour day, all of that time is teaching, dealing with behaviour/emotional issues, prepping lessons, marking and other admin which could be writing up incidents, emails etc.
Weekends and holidays spent planning, assessments, preparation for new term, admin to do with SEN (Annual review paperwork, support plans etc) work to do with subject leadership e.g writing policies, actions plans, reports, appraisals. If we are due Ofsted then there is data and evidence gathering that needs to be done for that.
Nearly all training is done as twilight sessions so all the work that needs to get done after school has to roll over to the next day or you have a very late night.
I like many teachers am looking for a new job.

Really interesting to compare to my (by contrast non existent admin) - I don't have any SEN input whatsoever, if the SEN department decides a pupil needs support they either take them out of my lesson for one to one teaching or send in a TA for that child, I wouldn't be routinely made aware who has needs and who doesn't unless SEN deem it to be appropriate.

That is their actual salary.
When I worked full time, I would average 12 hours a day during the week and at least 4 hours every weekend. So over a year of 39 weeks, I’d be working 2496 hours. My full time salary 4 years ago was £48k per year. That works out at £19.23 an hour.
On top of that, I would work at least 1 day every half term holiday, 2 days at Christmas and Easter and a full week during the summer holidays - not such long days, but around 6 hours a day. So that’s a further 72 hours. That brings the hourly pay to just over £18 per hour.

Why don’t you know whether any students you teach have any SEN???

I admire Teachers ,my friends DH and his DM and SIL both teach,Also my Cousins and their DD/DH as well. They all work hard and holidays usually have things to do/go into School .I think its harder now as well

Presumably because the SEN department know and provide support where the deem it appropriate, either in class or separately - no teacher would have a list or it noted in the register (as is common in state sector), I've never questioned why we do it differently, maybe its a privacy thing, but its dealt with by the SENCO (Learning Support Lead) and her staff.

Whatever, it's never caused an issue, system works, why challenge it!

Where are the TA’s coming from? Without funding?

I'm a primary head, same hours , half the pay!

Thanks OP, this is a great thread. I'm glad you asked, as I think it's important that people know what teachers are dealing with.

I'm home schooling and even with one person to teach it's a lot of work getting all my ducks in a row to make the use of each day efficient. That's without having to talk to parents and all that.

Do you think all this extra evidence you all have to provide, all the 'learning journey' stuff has led to better educated children who can do more/ achieve more than before this all existed?

I did teacher training in the late 80's. We had to lesson plan but there was no documented journey for each child. I was not a natural teacher and although I did supply for 5 years I couldn't have stayed in the profession. I didn't have the self discipline for one thing and I hated trying to get a class full of kids to be quiet and listen! I used the skills in my career as a business coach and trainer. I truly believe I was good at my job because I had done teacher training.

I really admire teachers.