Talk me through a teachers work load… why is it so hard?

[Mummame2222]

So, I adore my kids primary school teachers, they are all wonderful. I admire the work they do, I could never, ever do their job.

I supported all the strikes and believe teachers when they say they are overworked and underpaid.

I’m just curious how their time is spent. The holidays you have off each year does this average out your working week? So say you work 60+ hours during term time, what are you doing during half terms and school holidays?

Just trying to get a better understanding of how their job is so difficult, and like I said, I believe them and support them, I would just like to be better equipped and more knowledgeable when I stick up for them as the inevitable ‘yeah they get so much holiday’ argument always comes up when I try to!

I work 4 days a week, and am in school from 7.15-6 each working day. I never eat lunch because I work through my lunch break. But I spend at least 10 hours working evenings and weekend as well on a normal week (not around parents eve or report time)

• data tracking for each child
• marking every lesson for every child
• planning lessons (sometimes spending multiple hours planning a 1 hour lesson
• Differentiating 4 ways because of the levels of need in the class
• writing child protection reports
• writing newsletters for parents
• writing awards for children
• planning trips and all the paperwork alongside them
• delivering staff training
• subject leaders change medium term planning regularly and so you can reuse last year's lessons, you have to start from scratch
• writing parents evening reports every term
• calling parents about behavioural or mental health issues after school
• Writing specific school support plans for individual SEN children in the class each term
• Liasing with SEN specialists to support said children
• (unpaid) subject leadership tasks: CPD; writing policies; organising whole school events; organising whole school resources; liasing with external agencies
• end of year reports
• Meetings during lunch times
• Organising Christmas, Easter, end of year shows etc.
• displays in the classroom
• Attending PTA events
• having student teachers and writing up their progress reports
• supporting early careers teachers

A lot of this stuff I do at weekends or during holidays. If I'm getting paid 4 days a week, my hourly rate is barely minimum wage.

Primary teacher. Average work day is 7.30am to 6pm at school, and that is nonstop, no break at all. I will make a quick toilet trip when I can. Lunch is wolfed down at my desk as I prep the afternoon's lessons, input behaviour/safeguarding info or mark books.

I also work about an hour or two at home each evening, and between 4 and 8 hours over the weekend - mainly lesson planning.

This school is worse than my last, but I would say it's not unusual. Fewer TAs, less cover, no specialist teachers so class teachers do PE, MFL, art, computing, etc, which at other schools may have specialists for some of these subjects.

No SENCO support for SEN students as school can only afford a part time Senco. So there is no one to help make radically differentiated materials.

It's exhausting and every day is a marathon.

It's not necessarily the hours worked but more the intensity of delivering around 6 hrs/day. I saw a good TikTok describing how it would be if it was a business environment.

Plan each session, invite participants, differentiate resources eg different coloured paper/font, print off meeting notes, host meeting, make sure everyone in meeting is concentrating, make sure you target questions across the group, step in if participants are chatting, make sure participants have filled in sheets & stuck them in, wrap up meeting. It's like a performance 5 or 6 times a day.

At the end of running 6 meetings back-to-back you need to prep for another full day of meetings the following day & provide feedback on what each participant has done. Times this x 5. In secondary school you would have to get to know 150-250 names depending on your subject. They remember if they have any special requirements.

It's a good analogy. Most people running business meetings or delivering presentations would not do a full week of delivering content. They would have days where they got ready to deliver content, travelled, had meetings in an office with only a few people, some admin time, some Teams meetings, maybe wfh & nip out to pick kids up from school.

I do an admin role now in addition to teaching half the week. I'm busy doing that role but it's almost like I'm not working as I can stop & chat, use the loo, eat a snack.

There are also meetings before & after school.

It's not the hours worked but the mental load & and physical energy needed to keep going. Plus nowadays there are more fights & behaviour issues which can make a day worse.

Been working since 10am this morning on marking - about half way through the work as have some younger years to mark and planing still to do. Fairly typical for a Sunday .

Tend not to do too much in holidays though so trying to get all marking up to date before next Thursday.

Im an SEN primary teacher. I work 8-6 in school most days, the kids are in 9-3. I probably do 1-2 hours at home 2-3 evenings a week and then 3 or 4 hours at a weekend.

What I find exhausting is the constant preparation needed for lessons and trying to do that after a long day of working directly with the kids. My students have complex needs, challenging behaviour, complex medical needs, need constant support etc so the days are exhausting and I also need to manage a team of TAs, by 3pm I’m exhausted just from managing and teaching thE kids but then I have to sit down at a computer and get into work mode and plan the next run of lessons. So on Monday after school I need to make, print, laminate, velcro etc resources for Tuesdays lesson and then on Tuesday after 6 hours teaching I need to do the same for Wednesday and Wednesday the same for Thursday etc. The prep work is never done, you plan a lesson then you teach it and then you have to review it, update it and plan for the next one but the reality is that means making new resources, thinking of how to keep the lesson interesting etc and trying to do all that before the kids arrive the next day. It’s time sensitive and if something big comes up like a safeguarding issue you can’t just say oh well this is more important I won’t sort out tomorrows lesson, tomorrows lesson has to be done as well as the safeguarding issue, everything is time sensitive so it’s hard to juggle at times. I line manage 6 TAs so that can also bring up an additional workload if I need to deliver training, complete appraisals and performance management reviews, deal with absence related meetings etc.

I also feel like there’s always more I could be doing, that I should be making a better communication resource, better differentiation, finding a more interesting way to teach something etc. It’s hard to plan lessons too much in advance because you have no idea how much progress the kids will make, how quickly they’ll grasp the concept or how you’ll need to move them on so I have to do most of my planning the week I’m going to teach it. I also find a lot of my freetime is spent scrolling Amazon or traipsing round supermarkets or Poundland trying to find the resources I need to teach lessons, because all my kids have complex learning difficulties they are all on individual curriculums with individual targets and it’s rare that I can re-use lessons between students or year on year etc, I have a wide range of student needs in my class and needs which mean the kids need a completely different approach (eg: this year I have students with ASD, deaf students and a blind student who all need a completely different approach to everything so even group sessions have to be individually planned for each student). All of my lessons need to be multi-sensory and so I can’t just print a worksheet or teach the class from the board. On the other hand I’m lucky that I don’t have any marking to do as we don’t do much written work!

That said I don’t usually work that much in the holidays, usually just a day to prep things the day before we go back. In the summer holidays I might do a bit more and go in at least on day but not that much. If the kids aren’t in I don’t need to plan, review and update lessons so there isn’t too much workload there unless I have a report due.

OP - I think it’s great that you’re asking these questions and thank you for being supportive.

I try and explain it like this:

To be a successful teacher you need to be energetic and engaging. All day. Every day.

A typical full time secondary teacher will teach 5 lessons a day. Imagine having to write the script each evening for 5 performances the next day. You then perform them. One after another. On your feet for 5 hours. Over half your audience doesn’t want to be there. They don’t sit there quietly. You have to engage them, interact. Then at the end of your 5 hours of performances you have to plan for the next days performances. And then the next days. Again and again. For 6-7 weeks. You then have a week or two off to rest your voice and body before doing it all again.

Imagine an actor performing live theatre for 5 hours a day every day for weeks on end. You wouldn’t begrudge them having a week off after a run of this to rest? And that’s with the script written for them and doing the same script each day.

The bare minimum a teacher does is write these scripts and performs them. And that’s exhausting. Mentally and physically and psychologically. Because the audience aren’t passive. They can be loud, rude, tired, anxious. Imagine how you feel if you are walking through town and you see a group of teenagers hanging around being aggressive. Now imagine having to perform to groups of 30 teenagers like this 5 times a day.

And beyond all of this you have to mark their work. Even just spending 5 mins per child’s book adds up to a couple of hours per class. Multiply by 5 classes. Each week.

Thats just the basics. Plan a lesson. Deliver a lesson. Mark the work. 5 times a day. Every day. For weeks.

On top of that you have meetings / parents evenings / data drops / emails / tutor group issues …

I think until you’ve done it it’s hard to explain just how much a teacher has to do in a day, in a week, in a term. It’s impossible and there are not enough hours to do it all properly.

My friend (not a teacher!) who had to do a work presentation once moaned that she’d only been given 48 hours notice to prepare it. She literally spent 2 days planning a 1 hour presentation. Presented it to 20 ish colleagues 3 times over a day. With coffee and chat and lunch in between. She said she was exhausted by the end of it and took the following day off! When I jokingly said “welcome to a small glimpse of my world” the penny dropped and she said she didn’t know how teachers did that every day.

@Mummame2222

So, is the pay that’s being advertised on a teachers job advert Per annum? Are they being paid that full amount or is some deducted for unpaid leave?

The salary for a teacher is what is advertised. It's not pro rata.

I see the holidays as time off in lieu. I know people who work for local council, government, in industry who can build up 2 days/month TOIL. If you add that onto 25 days hols plus bank holidays that would be 24+25+8=57 which is 11.4 weeks. So not really that much different to teacher hols. I don't see anyone having a moan about people doing this.

I’ve worked in schools that had a tough workload and schools which have an easier one - from experience I think it depends on the school,area and perhaps the year group you are teaching. I’m currently in an ‘easier’ school where I don’t work evenings/ weekends/ holidays and I get everything done during the day. My PPA time is sufficient I can get things done.

I could go back to work in inner London for the extra payment but I really don’t want too as a good work life balance is important to me so I’d rather stay where I am.

I'm early years lead so SLT in my small school (so not on leadership pay scale).

Last week I had a meeting after school every night and 2 before school., I get into school at 7 and usually leave around 6 but two nights I left at 6:30... because I'd had meetings I couldn't sort my provision enhancements out so I came into school on Saturday to prep as I'm interviewing tomorrow to finally replace my ta.. I've also had to prep for that.

Oh and it's been data so been completing data and analysing ey data as a whole to plan for interventions.

I have had to redesign the ey curriculum in my school as nothing has been in place for years (constant supply before I took over in Sept), spent 3 full weeks in thr summer hols in turning two classes into an early years unit.. I'm having to rewrite policies and sort the website out.. on top of all the planning etc.

I get £2k a year more than my class teacher salary.

Oh and as SLT I often have to deal with behaviour throughout school and the subsequent paperwork.

I'm also completing two research projects and my SENCO qualifications. We break up on Thursday and I am on my knees. So I will be actually spending time with my two children in the holidays along with cleaning my shithole of a house.

I was Deputy Head but took early retirement 2 years ago.
7am start (leave home at 6.30am) every day
6-6.30pm finish
One day a fortnight stayed til around 8pm for Governor meeting
No lunch break ever. Always had children to supervise at break/lunch time
Often took work home probably three times a week to read through, policies etc and used to reply to emails at home.
Half terms I used to go in at least two days for meetings with HT and to catch up on paperwork.
Easter holidays I always used to take a week and the bank holidays off then back in.
Summer holidays I’d never take the first few days off as so much stuff to finish up, organise prep for new school year. Always managed to take 4 weeks holiday after that then back for week before opening to prep staff training inset, school improvement plan etc.
Christmas I’d try to take off as the first term was always the most brutal!
So I’d probably have 6 weeks of actual holiday a year. Worked 55-60 hour weeks at school in term tIme plus hours at home and weekends.
I earned £50k a year.
Quick calculation for hourly pay …
52 weeks a year minus 13 weeks school holidays is 39 weeks.
58(hours a week) x 39 = 2262 hours a year (in school days)
£50,000 divided by 2262 = £22
So I earned £22 an hour but that doesn’t include the weeks of school holidays I worked, evenings, taking work home etc.
I daren’t calculate any more - it’s too depressing
My responsibility was huge. Over 300 children and 50 staff.
I loved the job at first and felt it an enormous privilege to lead a school with the HT.
Never been so stressed; punched, kicked, attacked on an all too regular basis too.
I know many teachers in the profession and almost all of them are looking for a way out. Hardly surprising is it?

Yep @usernamedifferent . There's so much admin, planning and marking that I sometimes find myself thinking 'I could actually get all my work done if only I didn't have to go and teach kids all the time', which is a ridiculous way to feel about the thing that's the main (and most rewarding) part of your job!

That’s a good point around accountability, but I still think 50 hours a week as standard (which is what I gather from this thread) is too high for what is not a brilliantly paid job.

I’m currently in an ‘easier’ school where I don’t work evenings/ weekends/ holidays and I get everything done during the day. My PPA time is sufficient I can get things done.

That's amazing for you. However, even in the easier schools I honestly don't think i've ever encountered a teacher who can say they don't work evenings and weekends.

I have often wondered this, and am generally too scared to ask. I think many of us are influenced by our experiences of teachers in the 80s/90s where it did appear that teachers tended to wing it a bit, spent quite a lot of time shouting, and went down the pub at lunch. I doubt lesson planning was a thing for many. We rarely got our work marked; we had to mark our own work in class - the teacher read out the answers. As a previous poster said, there was no accountability as to whether anyone actually learned anything, and many people didn’t. This must have made it so much easier for teachers back then (but they were still underpaid). Behaviour was pretty appalling in my class, but I don’t think the teachers used to have to do any following up on things outside of the lesson time. It does seem to be a lot of social work and managing challenging behaviour these days, and I can see why this is not sustainable.

I’m currently in an ‘easier’ school where I don’t work evenings/ weekends/ holidays and I get everything done during the day. My PPA time is sufficient I can get things done.

You finish everything you need to within PPA time? You don't need to work past 3:30pm or before 830am? Really?!

Or if you were free to teach without all the extra admin!

I’m constantly surprised by the waste of resource that is a teacher doing all their own printing/photocopying etc…that’s an absolute basic clerical job which should be carried out by a person on a clerical salary, not a teacher…no wonder you all have to chase your tails

Doesn't that mean that the fte wage is pretty good then? I'm not saying it shouldn't be but there always seems to be this tension in making sense of the demands on teachers. Are they effectively taking TOIL in holidays having worked like trojans in the term time? It would be good to be more honest and realistic re teaching workloads so teachers don't get burnt out.

@camelfinger

I think years ago there was less interest from parents & even when I first started teaching parents rarely got in contact with school. They would have to make a phone call. Now they just ping off an email with whatever query or complaint they have. I doubt parents would be happy if they thought teachers went off to the pub for lunch.

Inspections are a big thing nowadays too.

Years ago parents would usually take the side of the teacher. It's the opposite nowadays.

Why justify it?

If it was so easy for a great salary everyone would be doing it but they are really not are they?

I’ve never seen anyone ask other professions this question.

I arrive in school 7am and leave around 5. School day start at 8.30 and I have rehearsals, meetings or clubs until 4.30, the rest is planning, marking, dealing with pastoral issues (e.g. a child disclosing they are self-harming) and pointless data analysis. On a normal weekend I work about 4-8 hours. I was told as a newly qualified teacher to only work 10% of holidays, which I try to do, but e.g. at Easter it's impossible as I have coursework to mark and moderate, revision days for Yr 11 and rehearsals for the school show, so will probably just have the weekends off. I love my job but it is brutal.

isn't that more than 6 weeks holiday? 4 in the summer, 2 at xmas, 1 at Easter plus 2 bh, 7 days spread over the half terms. That's more like 9 weeks isn't it? Including bank hols. More than nurses get for comparison but obviously nothing like the headline 13 weeks. I think it's wrong when jobs don't allow breaks. It's the same in the NHS and it's a very poor reflection on a role when there literally is no time to take a break in the day.

Hi OP
When I was at the coalface of teaching, teaching about 240 kids, I didn't work during the holidays. Invariably, I was sick during the short ones/collapsed in a heap.
That sounds dramatic, I know, but was a mixture of sleep deficit/insomnia, adrenaline drop and just needing time to sleep then go again.
In the Summer holidays, the first week I'd collapse-regenerate, then I used to take a fortnight proper holiday, then I'd go in for results and do the positive/negative residuals and the remaining two weeks I'd pop in and out of school and sort my classroom/redecorate/new seating plans/classlists/prepping.
This is if we hadn't done a school trip away.

I do cover now - get in, get on, get out. If full time doing supervision rather than supply, you're on about £1,500 after tax. It's very poorly paid.
I have, however, done a couple of classes on top to help out recruitment-wise and this reminds me why I'd never return to the classroom again, my own personal situation not withstanding.

1. The pressure of differentiation - trying to teach to the top while scaffolding at the bottom.
2. Marking papers - if done properly, I'm spending 4 hours at least per assessment. They then need inputting.
3. Marking books - we only need to "tick and flick" but I find it hard to do that when I see spelling and grammar errors and that they have ticked answers right when they were wrong, during green penning. I can easily spend 2-4 hours on a set of books, if I don't give my head a wobble.
4. Rewards/Chasing issues - again, if I don't remind myself I'm not paid enough as support staff, I could easily spend up to 2 hours a day writing out praise postcards, putting in rewards on deep diving evidence rather than guesswork (under the radar "good" doesn't mean the work is adequate) and making phone calls home.

Now multiply that times eight classes. The time flies.
That doesn't include extra curricular, exams extra tuition, interventions, pastoral support/form responsibility, extra T+L some have, whatever you do for the department voluntarily, whatever you do for the whole school voluntarily to progress, departmentals and inset/whole school training.

Up and coming teachers know how to say no more, I think. Unions gave a list last year of 27 odd things we shouldn't be doing. Not quietly quitting as much as work smarter rather than harder.
I notice my own kid's books in secondary are barely marked aside from the odd assessment. I asked whether it mattered to them. They claimed it didn't.
I am very old and therefore old-school: I find it hard to say how well someone is doing unless I've fine-combed their books.
Maybe it is just me, I think there are short cuts to be had, I think some of the unions' objections were fair - but then if some of the things they wanted you to object to (e.g. duties) weren't done, I am not sure how the school would run.

I left teaching and now only have 4 weeks annual holiday every year, like most people do.

I 100% have more free time now than I did when I was a teacher.

My holidays are actually spent relaxing and I can fully switch off, which I couldn’t do as a teacher.

I left the end of July and without trying I’ve lost 3 stone, my skin has cleared up and my hairs and nails are stronger.
I also sleep better and have so much more energy.

I was worried about leaving teaching as I did love the students and the holidays were (I thought) a great plus but it was only when I left did I realise how ill teaching was making me.

When I was a teacher, I worked around 55-60 hours each week. 45 physically in school, and then another 10-15 in the evenings and on Sundays.

If we take a low estimate of 50 hours a week (38 weeks a year), that's 1,900 working hours a year. Plus a week's worth of inset days which were a more typical 40 hours.

The average employee working a 40 hour week with 28 days of holiday (the legal bare minimum) works 1856 hours a year.

So no, the holidays do not make up for it.

And that's without factoring in that I'd spend several days in each holiday working too.

This is the thing that always comes up and I never understand people’s thoughts process.

So many people say it’s good money, lots of holidays and an easy job - yet it’s always the people who aren’t teachers who say this.

As you say, surely if teaching was such a good job then the people saying this would become teachers themselves!!