Medical School

[MarchMoon]

My daughter is doing her GCSEs this year and hopes to study medicine at uni. She's lucky that she's good at most of her subjects, though she finds chemistry quite hard – and she doesn't love it as a subject.
She's predicted an 8 for Chemistry GCSE and is capable of doing well at A-level, I'm sure.
My question is how much will chemistry feature in actual university study? Or is a chemistry A-level more about providing a foundation for the study of medicine?

Our son studies medicine at university in England.
Step up in chemistry. Get her a tutor.

@mumsneedwine Every single other country doesn’t have a NHS!!! No one. Of course there’s more money if it’s private. You cannot have high wages and the NHS - I truly believe. Those who are happy with a mix of insurance and state go abroad but it’s not the NHS anywhere. Other countries might also be more efficient and have much smaller populations.

@TizerorFizz oh dear. There are other free at source models of healthcare. Australia have Medicare and Canada have a similar scheme. NI pays for the NHD (or was supposed to), just like taxes in other countries. Our doctors used to earn 35% more than they do now, that's what FPR is asking for. And the pension is only payable when you're 70 so not much help paying the rent when you're 25.

A F3 in Australia pays £85,000 but in the UK £35,000. And in Aus it's for a 35 hour week.

But if you think doctors are well paid then crack on. Just don't expect to be treated by one in 5 years time. As they'll have left or been made redundant and replaced by PAs (who earn more than doctors),

@TizerorFizz as to who is doing those jobs ? PAs. Replacing doctors after a 2 year post grad but can't prescribe or work on their own. But who earn 35% more than doctors.
We have more than enough doctors in this country, but the government won't give them jobs. Because then there'd be no waiting lists and no need for people to go private. Now who owns the private medical companies again ? Oh yes, conservatives and their buddies.

@MarchMoon the Unis you don't need chemistry for are :

Keele
Kent
Lancaster
Manchester
Newcastle
Plymouth
Sheffield
UEA

So still some choices. And no insane UCAT needed (Plymouth this year was 2600).

Many people used to earn more then they do now! It’s not just confined to state employees with the biggest pensions. I’m always amazed that dc desperately went to be doctors and then spend all their time complaining when they are. You obviously don’t know what others earn and I’m sure your DD will do very well. As the majority do. Why did she choose this career and, in effect stop others being selected, if it’s so awful? My DD has uni friends who are doctors and they are not giving up!

I have seen at first hand the care (not) given to the elderly by medical staff in hospital. Pain relief staff never did show up after weeks for DM. Total nightmare. I agree it’s shocking but money doesn’t make people kind or caring. I’m in the die before I get old camp. Plus I have no idea who my GP is. I actually cannot remember when I last saw a GP. Maybe 5 plus years ago? I try very very hard to not need anything. Having said that, I’ve been waiting 6 months for a glaucoma test. Probably will pay as I’m told a year’s wait if you are lucky.

And there is no other NHS. There are hybrid models but we are stupidly unique.

You always have to get nasty and personal when people don't agree with you. Not once have I said this is how my DD feels, it's how I feel. Weirdly I am allowed an opinion.
You believe what you like. Wealthy lawyers don't need to worry about the NHS as that's just for the poor people.
Not sure why you post on medic threads ? But it's a free country.

I'll leave this here. Not everyone seems to have taken a pay cut. But hey, let's all start clapping again. That will help pay the bills.

Get 1:1 tutoring if necessary, if it's that important to do medicine

It's not. You do g need chemistry. It will give you more options to choose from, but the Unis listed don't need it (although some require 2 sciences, which can include psychology),

I see someone has already posted the universities that don’t require chemistry. Hopefully your dd will change her mind about medicine though and do something else.

The tax oayer is not fully footing the bill for their training, they have to pay for their degree and once qualified their exams they are required to do, as well a yearly to register with GMC.They also do not have much control over the location of where they work, as at Junior Dr level they are often on 2 year contracts

@MarchMoon i am a doc who struggled with chemistry at school and managed med school fine. It is biochemistry as opposed to physical chemistry so she will find it more interesting and I personally don't think it was particularly hard

Pension is not as good as it was, and is 9% of your pay

Actually, it's 13.5% of your pay

Most medical students will repay £250,000 in student loan. Not sure why their training costs that much - PassMed isn't even free 😂.

Apologies for not getting the pension right. 13.5% sounds more like it - it's a hefty whack from a minimal paycheck. Parking is a charge I forgot - if you're lucky enough to be allowed to park on site it's usually about £100 a month. Anyone else pay to park on site at their workplace ?

Things must get better. Or else it's the end of the of the NHS. ❤️‍🩹

This is incorrect. It is a percentage of earnings and the more you earn the higher the percentage you pay into pension. Range is 5.2% to 12.5% now.

This seems to be what is paid. So F1 will be an about 9%. It's not a free pension whatever the deduction.

Thanks for this @MarchMoon And following the rest of the chat with interest… Lots to consider!

Oops , MarchMoon is me! I meant to thank @mumsneedwine !

@MarchMoon Your DD might like to consider why she wants this career at 16 when it seems no one is happy by the time they are 26. It’s a serious question. I’m not sure why pupils don’t weigh up the pros and cons first. If money doesn’t matter, and lots of students with a strong vocational urge will initially say it doesn’t, but then they start work and it suddenly matters. Car parking charges? Well at least they can afford a car. Or someone has.

It seems to me that school pupils and parents like the kudos of the job and the bragging rights, but then aren’t happy when DC actually do it. I would urge DD to examine what she really wants. It’s not an obligation to study medicine if it doesn’t make you happy or you think it’s not worth the money.

The hours junior doctors worked was excessive. It was reduced. We have a larger and aging population. We’ve had COVID. The NHS has rock bottom productivity. It’s great for part time working and launching doctors into private medicine but it’s going to struggle for ever. There’s no fix anyone can afford.

My DD’s post grad training courses cost £30,000 plus living expenses. No loan available. It’s not true everyone else gets “free” training. Plus she has no employer pension contribution of 23%. She pays substantially more than 9% into a private pension. Most people would give their right arm for a doctor’s pension.

@TizerorFizz
My daughter has been interested in all things medical since an early age.
At this point it’s about keeping her options open - I think it’s tough making decisions at 16 but she’s keeping the medicine path open by choosing the A-level options she needs. She may yet change her mind but at the moment she’s focused on psychiatry as a career. Not for the money or status but because she’s genuinely interested in it. Psychology is also an option at this point.

Certainly no pressure from me or her dad but we do want her to go into whatever she does with her eyes wide open. Money, long working hours and potential stress are certainly factors to weigh up.

If it helps, my DD absolutely loves her job. It's changeover day today so on to the next rotation. A nice, gentle 4 months in one of the busiest ED in the country 🤪.

The NHS is a brutal place to work but her seniors and colleagues all support each other as much as they can. She is now used to being the on call for 100s of patients on her own. Pay and progression are real worries but hopefully by the time your DD makes it they'll be sorted.

@MarchMoon

I’m a dr (of 25 years). You need very little chemistry for med school, although if it was my child I’d be persuading them to do almost anything else. The NHS is a truly shit employer and unless she plans to go abroad there is no alternative for the foreseeable future. Any reform will almost certainly involve locking drs into the NHS to prevent its complete collapse. Would she consider training in the ROI? Def worth looking at.

From my experience ( medic and parent of med student) chemistry a level required to get in then you can pretty much forget it!
medicine is much less academic than you think, yes there is knowledge to assimilate but it’s a very practical people focused job and lots of us rely very little on basic science. When my children were doing year 7 chemistry I was completely lost despite having an A in my A level

PS I’m a psychiatrist. Been a doctor for 30 years and still love it. Yes the NHS is brutal at present but I would still do it again in a heartbeat.