Medical School

[MarchMoon]

My daughter is doing her GCSEs this year and hopes to study medicine at uni. She's lucky that she's good at most of her subjects, though she finds chemistry quite hard – and she doesn't love it as a subject.
She's predicted an 8 for Chemistry GCSE and is capable of doing well at A-level, I'm sure.
My question is how much will chemistry feature in actual university study? Or is a chemistry A-level more about providing a foundation for the study of medicine?

My DD is studying medicine, albeit in Ireland. Chemistry is really important. She loved Chemistry at school and finds it easy, but she said her first semester in University had more content than all of her Chemistry at school and the pace has only speeded up since then.

Lots of chemistry unfortunately. They want chemistry more than anything else.

My daughter used to love chemistry but unfortunately she’s not had a great teacher these past 2 years, and she lost interest. She excels at biology and physics so hopefully she can rediscover a love of chemistry at A level!

Yep chemistry is important!

Literally 2 years going on and on and on about action potentials and sodium channels.

Don't remember a thing about it now but god there was a lot of it at the time.

l will give you my son's experience. Plan A didn't work out after A levels so he went to Germany ( girl friend ) and now fluent. Didn't know what to do so we said get a good degree at a good uni in something you are interested in.
Southampton and did Biology. At the end of the first year he announced he was going to do Medicine and use the summer to prepare for the gateway exams. He didn't do physics and chemistry past gcse. He scored well and applied for post graduate medical courses and had offers at 4. He had also played sport at county and national level. He got involved as a volunteer with MIND whilst at school and carried it on in Germany and for sometime after he qualified. What l am trying to say is that medical schools take more than academic achievement into account. All is not lost at 18 if you really want to be in Medicine. We have experience in this field and were pleased he didn't want to go at 18. Some life experience and maturity really helps with the course and the job. However there is a financial cost which can be a hurdle for many students.
His only regret was that in retrospect he should have done Physiology as his first degree not Biology but then at the point of applying he didn't know what he wanted🙄😀

Thanks @mags2024 Is your son qualified now?! Great that he had the tenacity to go for it.
I’m pleased that my daughter has been volunteering for nearly a year, working with disabled kids. I think it will stand her in good stead for medicine. She hopes to get more work experience this summer.
Making decisions at 16 is tough. My daughter is doing well in science but she absolutely loves English and history too, so although she wants to do medicine she feels sad to be leaving that side of her study behind.

She doesn't have to limit herself to STEM A levels. A friend did biology, chemistry & German. Another took music as a 4th.

Thanks MarchMoon he did indeed qualify around about 2015 as did his girlfriend. He certainly didn't set the world alight with his gcse results and that greatly reduced his choice of A levels at his school or even getting into the Sixth Form. He was dyslexic but that never stopped him and he was exceptional at things that interested him mainly computer games and sport. The school acknowledged it but took the view he had to manage his dyslexia as the big bad world of work would make very little in allowances.
l did encounter some difficult comments from family and even my husbands partner's wife. Most of their children were straight A students and hadn't had any offer's and they found it difficult to accept especially when several were doctors/ dentists.
My perception is that Medical Schools look for well rounded people who have and can demonstrate good communication skills, problem solvers, some life experience and a language helps. So many kids get umpteen A grades you have to have something that sets you apart. My son needed to mature a bit so doing a first degree provided this. Financially he was lucky to be an only child.
During their medical student days they managed to work in Africa with The Gates Foundation during the summer holidays. Volunteers at Glastonbury to name but a few interesting jobs where at least board and lodging are provided. Haribo factory in Germany may not have been such a highlight 🙂
After F1 & F2 they went to Australia for a couple of years and spent about six months traveling back to UK via Japan, India and South America - belated honeymoon. They were about to go back to Oz when Covit hit so decided to stay and started their training posts, rather than defer for a year, with a view to reassessing once everything settled down. Nature then took a hand and they are expecting their second child any day. For the foreseeable they will be here - good for us. They have been back for a wedding in Oz so never say never and we just make the most of it whilst they are here. Good luck - if you are determined you will find away, Conversely if the reality of the training and the job are not for them they must have the space to say so and do something else.

I wanted to be a medic - scraoed the A level and then decided to do optometry. Would recommed that.

theeyeofdoe l agree and could add audiology and chiropody to the list to consider. A better chance of a work life balance too. However like dentistry and GP a qualification in how to run a business / accountancy is as important as the medical qualification.

Thanks for all these suggestions, definitely good to have backup options.
My daughter wants to be a psychiatrist actually, though I’m well aware other things may grab her interest as she goes along.
Thanks @mags2024 for sharing your son’s experience. Great he could change track once he found out where his interest lay… and totally agree that life experience is important. Hope you’re enjoying being a grandparent!
My daughter is holding on to history A level for now, she loves it. So we’ll see where she goes!

@MarchMoon there are 8 Unis which don't need chemistry A level. So you'd have options, but they'll be more limited (& will need a good UCAT to have some choice).

I'm not near my laptop but I'll let you know the 8 when I'm home.

PS. What do you call the medical student who came bottom of their class ?

Doctor.

You don't need to be the most academic or the most dynamic to be a good doctor. Yes, you need to be clever but you also need to have loads of other softer skills too. The MMI formats for interviews really ensures these are the students who succeed.

Context - my own DD is an F1, and I support medics to apply at my own and other local state schools.

Thanks @mumsneedwine
Yes, you’re right docs need those softer skills you talk about. But people above seem to think chemistry is really important during the degree, so without an A-level, it must be tough to get on?
Your job sounds interesting! Great you can help students find a route in.

@MarchMoon my DD said chemistry was not needed - biology was v helpful. All the biochem is taught anyway at Uni.

It's an interesting job - hard to see the tough life of an F1 and still encourage others to do medicine. My DD is doing a 13 hour shift today and is the lowest paid person in the hospital. She would earn more as an HCA (no enhanced pay for Drs).

But, the world will always need doctors, and in most places it's still a good job. I hope the NHS is treated better under the next government.

I'll post those 8 Unis tomorrow for you.

Gosh, yes, @mumsneedwine The pay for such hardworking and well qualified workers is crazy! I hope your daughter finds the work satisfying at least.

Many thanks for your for your help, useful to hear another perspective re the chemistry.

@MarchMoon for further perspective I teach chemistry 😂

@MarchMoon just to confuse you more, Newcastle don't even need science A levels.

Wow, that’s interesting! And unusual!

Most want Chemistry but not 3 sciences at A level, plus someone who has a variety of interests/volunteering, outside their studies. Chemistry and one other science plus a different subject would keep her options open at this stage, as different medical schools look for different things.

@MarchMoon You accept, in medicine, you don’t earn so well to begin with but you are building up a terrific pension and there is very decent pay later on with many opportunities others don’t get. Plus it’s competitive to get into the courses so no shortage of accepting the challenges of the job at that point. Doctors in cheap housing areas will still be quids in and the IFS says it has the best return on any degree. So hold on to that!

@TizerorFizz in the olden days that might have been true. Not now. 1 in 4 will get the opportunity to specialise, the rest will be stuck at F2 pay for years. Pension is not as good as it was, and is 9% of your pay (so not free). Take off student loan, GMC fees, indemnity and exam costs, and most foundation doctors need to do locums to pay rent. And locums are drying up due to PAs.

Doctors are badly paid. That £32,000 is for a 48 hour week. No supplements for bank holidays or before 9pm. Most work a 60 hour week - no choice in that, it's your rota. Rotated every 4-6 months, anywhere in the country. The strikes are about more than just pay.

But there's always Australia(& New Zealand, Canada, USA, Cyprus,Malta, and any European country if you speak the language. Oh and the Far East). Pretty much everywhere treats doctors better (except Spain apparently 🤷‍♀️).

@mumsneedwine The tax payer puts in 23.7% to the doctor’s pension so they get amazing value for money and it’s a huge uplift on salary. Self employed people get 0 uplift from the state. Most really do not stay on £32,000 for long. The extra hours are paid as overtime. It is not great at the start. They have had a choice of career though and competed to get the training knowing the situation. I am glad so many want to be doctors. I do think they deserve more money but the ever shrinking tax payer is putting in a hell of a lot for training and pension. Many people pay for exams and maintaining memberships of institutions. Also others train for long periods too.

If promotion isn’t available, why not? Who is doing those jobs? So many doctors retire early (another perk) how come there aren’t jobs?