VAT on uni fees

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So we will probably have a Labour gvt soonish. This means private schools will pretty soon after, have VAT added on to the fees. I think most private school parents have either adjusted to and accepted that fee increase if possible, or they have planned the move to state school.

My point is (as I know others have made but I think it’s more and more of a possibility, the way things are going), once education is made VATable in one area, it won’t be long til others follow. Specifically uni fees. It was Labour who introduced tuition fees initially. It will be Labour who add VAT to them too. I can’t see it not happening once the precedent is set.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is far from a conspiracy theory. Currently under VAT law in the UK, the provision of education by an ‘eligible body’ (which includes private schools) is exempt from VAT. Goods and services that are closely related to education are also exempt from VAT eg catering, transport, school trips and boarding accommodation.

If you'd bothered to read the myriad of other threadssock puppets on the same topic you'd realise this isn't true.

Your OP is total and utter bollocks and shows no understanding whatsoever of HE funding or the laws around VAT.

It's not education that is or isn't vatable currently, it's the type of organisation that provides it - most private schools are set up as trusts or charities to benefit the education of children when we all know in reality they are businesses catering to the wealthy. Universities are very different as they are accessible to all via the government loans

There’s absolutely no indication this will happen. Transparent attempt to criticise the VAT on private school fees proposal, presumably.

Your understanding of VAT law here is piss poor.

University is a choice. There is no legal requirement to attend so based on your reasoning for private schools to have VAT on fees then University fees should also attract VAT of there is going to be any consistency.

Private education getting tax breaks is a 400 year throwback to before state education was available. University education is necessary in order to have a functioning country. They are not the same thing and so very obviously won't have the same policy approach.

Obviously you don't actually believe this, it's a sixth form debating society argument made in desperation as your party fades into irrelevance, but I did think it was worth clarifying for anyone who's not particularly politically engaged who might otherwise worry upon reading your thread.

I think it would be very difficult for the Governement to designate different VAT rates for different education providers. They would have to define what was meant by private education and that is a tricky one given that many universities are similar in structure to public schools!

I think it would be VAT on all education or the whole idea will be shelved as too difficullt to implement.

If you say so 😂🤷‍♀️

Who’s ’my party’ @littlegrebe ?

That’s one possible outcome that has been tabled.

What about extra curricular activities? Swimming, ballet, music lessons etc? Are they currently charged VAT? Could they be under labours plans? To me these are more similar to private education than universities as they are optional extras, whereas university is essential and the only option for certain careers. i don’t think they will make universities charge VAT, and if they did it would make little difference as no one other than very high earners will ever pay off their student debt under the latest rules - it will just be more debt to be written off in 40 years.

Tell me you haven't read the thread without telling me etc....

I completely agree with you op. It will be only a matter of time. As an aside because i believe it will happen regardless, Funding via nhs etc may become available for medical degrees and apprenticeships already can fund finance and accounting degrees. Studying non vocational courses is a luxury.

Studying non vocational courses is a luxury.

Like what - History, English, French? Who do you think will be teaching those subjects to your grand children or great grandchildren then if they're luxury subjects?

Studying non vocational courses is a luxury.

What a narrow minded view. Non- vocational subject contribute so much to the world.

Firstly VAT will not be added on to university tuition fees unless there is a radical change in the way that they are currently funded.

Secondly, the only people who would lose out if VAT were added to university tuition fees are those who would be looking to pay those fees upfront without the need to take out a student loan. So largely those already wealthy enough to pay private school fees. As the repayments are based on what you earn after graduation, rather than on what you borrowed, borrowing more because VAT is being added to the initial sum, will make zero difference to the amount you pay back each month. It will only ever effect those who end up earning a salary high enough to actually pay their loan off in full, which is not the vast majority of students.

It’s true though…I’m not far off 50 and I can count on one hand the number of my contemporaries who are actually pursued a career in what they studied at uni.
I think even at the time they knew they were just doing a “fun” degree.
I think apprenticeships will be the way forward for lots more youngsters. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see VAT on uni fees eventually.
If you want to study something fun, well good luck to you, but debatable if the Tax payer should be contributing in these cash strapped times.

@user1567879654445 but that is how the graduate labour market in the UK works. Between 60% and 80% of graduate level jobs don't ask for a specific degree subject because they are looking for the skills and attributes developed as part of higher education student - often referred to as graduate attributes.
The number of history graduates that go into accounting is a testament to that.

Not pursuing a career in your degree subject isn't a sign of failure or that you studied a 'fun' degree. Far from it......

*higher education studies

It's true though, my first degree, whilst fun is / was completely useless. I did it because I excelled in it at school as I found it really interesting, but it didn't qualify me for anything remotely useful...in fact when applying for jobs it held me back as perspective employers said I was over qualified.
I was over qualified for anything non skilled, and unqualified for anything skilled.
In the end I did a vocational degree, which led to a skilled qualification and finally a career.
I've told my dc it's completely pointless doing a 'luxury' arts degree (MFL and Geography the exception to the rule), as quite honestly its fool hardy to get into debt for no chance of a job at the end of three years study.
I disagree with VAT of private schools as I don't see Steiner or progressive schools as luxury, the kids I know who attend these schools do so because most of them have SEN and state school has been either detrimental to their well-being, or resulted in school refusal.
Dd has SEN (autism) and is coping in her state school (just), but I appreciate we're very lucky with our local school who have excellent pastoral care and after some initial funding hoops dd now has the funding she needs as directed by her EHCP.
DS (no additional needs) is also doing fine in the state system. I have no axe to grind here, but I think there is a huge difference in top paying fee schools such as Harrow or Eton and the small progressive or Steiner model schools.
However it wouldn't surprise me if labour get in, there will be a boom in online education, so secondary school kids who can't cope in mainstream do online school from home, whilst their parents are out at work/ working from home.
The question then arises will 'online schooling' come under the VAT rule, and if so what happens to the likes of google classroom which our State schools use?

@anunlikelyseahorse
Your experience is contrary to the graduate labour market as a whole.

The UK graduate labour market is designed around graduate attributes rather than specific skills. There are a relatively small set of careers where you need a specific set of skills and the rest look for attributes which you can develop from a wide range of degree subjects.

I cannot actually believe that some posters think that university is a luxury and that only vocational degrees count. Quite a depressing viewpoint. I don't believe any government of any denomination would take that view unless they actively wanted to stifle the future of the country.

If you want to study something fun, well good luck to you, but debatable if the Tax payer should be contributing in these cash strapped times.

Guessing you'll also want Art and PE removed from the national curriculum then? After all if you can't do a 'fun' at university there's not much point teaching it at school 🤷‍♀️

Vat on private school fees is primarily for ideological reasons, that don't apply to university education

I think most degrees are worth while, some vocational, some not so much. Obviously there are some ‘mickey mouse degrees’ - football studies? But if people want to take them so be it.

University is a luxury in that it’s another way of avoiding real life, working for a living is much harder (that’s my experience anyway). Obviously it’s not a luxury in that it gives people the skills they may or may not need in the future (directly or indirectly).

Not sure this has much to do with the VAT on educational services issue though.