VAT on uni fees

[567839Y]

So we will probably have a Labour gvt soonish. This means private schools will pretty soon after, have VAT added on to the fees. I think most private school parents have either adjusted to and accepted that fee increase if possible, or they have planned the move to state school.

My point is (as I know others have made but I think it’s more and more of a possibility, the way things are going), once education is made VATable in one area, it won’t be long til others follow. Specifically uni fees. It was Labour who introduced tuition fees initially. It will be Labour who add VAT to them too. I can’t see it not happening once the precedent is set.

I would be fairly shocked if that happened, they are already quite a controversial weight around graduate’s necks with the high interest rate.

There is absolutely no suggestion that this would happen.

And most students get their fees paid through a student loan. So the government would just have to increase the loan to cover the VAT.

Yawn.

Yes I think that would be it - just increased loans, piled on top. Can’t see them not there approach.

Maybe tedious but looked at logically and legally, if it goes through in the first place there is no reason why it won’t be applied to other areas of education.

People are in denial about it because it seems unthinkable. Tuition fees did once upon a time.

I don't think that'll happen for a couple of reasons

1. Uni fees for the most part are paid by the government and rarely paid off in full. They wouldn't actually gain anything they'd just have to pay out more money.
2. Private school is a choice. Education is a legal requirement until the child is 18 and therefore a state option has to be (and is) provided as an alternative. So if VAT gets added to school fees a good number of these pupils will just move to a state option or homeschool. We don't have public, government funded options (there may be the odd one), Universities are private businesses so by adding VAT onto them people don't have anywhere else to go (especially those industries that have major recruitment problems and staff shortages but require a degree) so we'd end up with an even bigger shortage of doctors/nurses/teachers ect.

Are trying in a round about way to get people to object to the VAT on private school fees OP?

Is it also you that started other past threads saying exactly the same thing?

Most people start uni today with no intention to pay back, or little thought anyway, to how they’ll pay back the loan they need to pay the fees. What’s the average debt about £50,000 by now I should think.

If that goes up, many students won’t think about it as they won’t pay anything back til they earn a certain amount (40k?), and even then they’ll pay minimum amount each month.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/25/largest-debt-amassed-by-student-in-england-is-189700

Nah not really. Most people have accepted that now. As I said before, either a family can afford the increase, or they will move to state school. I know 2 people that have moved already, to make sure they get the places near home.

Isn’t the question really ‘ it a luxury good’?

Private education is a luxury. University education is not essential for some careers but it is for others. I don’t think it can be classified as a luxury.

I think it will eventually be taxed.

In the same way the £3k tuition fees were sold as being fair on people who didn't go to uni, ththe same. It didn't matter then that some job require degrees.
.it will dressed up and spun accordingly.

Now the fees are £9k a year with intetest piled on top.

Nah it won't happen.

At some point there will need to be a change to how HE is funded. This won't be it as it wouldn't achieve any of what is needed. This is an odd conspiracy theory from those objecting to paying their dues for private education. Glad to hear that just the promise of VAT on fees is already moving social/political capital in to the state system. Roll on election day.

For students who started in Sept 23 the repayment threshold has been reduced to £25k, the term is 40 years and the interest accumulates from day 1 at around 9%.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is far from a conspiracy theory. Currently under VAT law in the UK, the provision of education by an ‘eligible body’ (which includes private schools) is exempt from VAT. Goods and services that are closely related to education are also exempt from VAT eg catering, transport, school trips and boarding accommodation.

Once Labour have introduced VAT fees on private schools (assuming they do), via changing their definition of ‘eligible body’, theoretically, at a point of their choosing, they could also, omit universities and any of the above services that are closely related to education as being VAT exempt.

Am I happy about the spectre of VAT on school fees, no. Will it change where my children go to school, also no. The fact remains - once they add VAT to one aspect of education, it is not a ‘conspiracy theory’ to think they will add it to more.

What?? 9%? that is scandalous. Talk about keeping the plebs (all of us except the top 5% running the world) in line with mounting debt. 🙈

Exactly.
University is considered a public and a private good.
Yes, the individual benefits which is why the funding of HE switched to the students themselves via student loans. But it's also considered a public good as we need university educated people to do certain jobs and society as a whole benefits from a more educated population.

They aren’t the same

Private education isn’t necessary to educate children to 18 - the state can do that under the state system. People make a choice to use private schools and it doesn’t benefit society as a whole. Private schools are funded directly through parents (usually). Universities are funded indirectly through government loans. Most students time out before the loan is repaid so all that would happen is a bigger loan would be written off at the end of the term - there would be no net gain to the exchequer. There is an argument for it in terms of “fairness” as other businesses have to “collect” huge amounts of VAT but I can’t see a labour government who have wittered about tuition fees being too high for over a decade, making them even higher by taxing them.
The VAT system already is littered with ludicrous anomalies so this is not going to worry them too much.

VAT isn’t really a “luxury goods” tax. Gas and electricity, winter coats and shoes, walking sticks and infant car seats, cheese toasties and hot sausage rolls (but not cheese sandwiches and cold sausage rolls) are all VAT rateable. Millionaires shortbread and tunnocks tea cakes are not.

@567839Y you are missing the point. Anyone who knows anything about the HE funding crisis knows there are plenty of (unpalatable) potential options for addressing it. This isn't one as it wouldn't work. Some of the reasons for which have already been set out for you in this thread.

You don't know anything about HE funding. But clearly don't really want to as you are just trying to scaremounger because you don't like paying VAT on private school fees.

What keeps the plebs out of a ruling elite is a social apartheid of the education system- which you seem keen to perpetuate.

I can’t tell you any more. I’m content to agree to disagree regarding VAT fees.

I’m not trying to ‘scaremonger’ anything. It is what it is. We’ve accepted that vat will be on school fees, it’s not a battle I need to fight.

This however - is not accurate
‘What keeps the plebs out of a ruling elite is a social apartheid of the education system-‘
No. You think the few billionaires that run the world give a fck about education?

And with ref to ‘which you seem keen to perpetuate’.. How? By sending my children to private school? That’s bit facile isn’t it. I went to a crap comprehensive that ended at age 16, then a crap college. I have done all I can to ensure my children don’t. Is that perpetuating a ruling elite? No it’s just trying to do the best I can for my children. Which is what every parent does.

But they still have to pay it back in the long term so it’s still an increase for them. And no, I very much doubt it would be applied immediately but once the principle is set - that education can have VAT on it - I think it’s pretty much a certainty that it will be put on other forms of education.

@567839Y , you misunderstand how politics works. Labour are using VAT on private school fees as a populist vote-winner. Only a small proportion of parents can afford private school fees, and private schools are unpopular with those that don't use them, because they are seen as elitist and a way for the rich to insulate themselves from any national school-funding or performance issues.

In contrast, a previous Labour government was responsible for widening access to Higher Education, making it less elitist than it used to be. There would be no logic in them adding VAT to fees.

😂 Ok. Thanks for correcting me.

@567839Y no some parents think about raising good people. Not fucking over everyone else's children in favour of their own.

Most people can't afford a private education- whatever sacrifices they make. Most of the professions you rely on every day. You perpetuate social inequality. Take responsibility for that. Rather than talking nonsense about VAT and HE (the latter of which you clearly know nothing about).

Seeing whether social segregation and elitism is the 'best' for your children is a long game. See how they turn out. But the evidence of what it does to the education system as a whole is longstanding and irrefutable- do some research. So don't expect to go unchallenged on your decisions.

Labour should do more to end this inequality. Hopefully once elected they will.

You’re a charmer that’s for sure. You’re a good person. Well done you!