What percentage of children do 11+?

[frost8bite]

DS is asking and I'm struggling to find an answer... anyone know?

Depends on the location.

Most areas have no grammars... so 0%.
Other areas have a grammar/secondary modern system with the grammars taking the top 20% or so of children, like Kent... so a lot higher percentage will take the test
Then there's the Superselectives, which take the top 5% or so, with children travelling from a lot wider area... only the top children take the test.

Depends on the area.

Hertfordshire - hardly any, not an GS area.

Kent - much larger proportion as there are grammar schools in most larger towns.

I'd never heard of the 11 plus until I joined Mumsnet. Just not a thing where I am.

“This year, a total 17,037 children sat the exam, with 11,170 of those living in the county; the rest took the test from other local authority areas. Out of those from Kent, 5,050 qualified to apply for grammar schools.18 Oct 2023”

Apparently there are 163 grammar schools, out of approx 3000 (state) secondary schools. Which is about 5% of schools across England.

Taking the assumption that these schools are averaged sized (they probably aren't... there's loads of comprehensives with 12 form intakes, whereas a grammar school might have 4 firm intake...)... that will be a maximum of 5% passing the 11+.

Kent says half pass the test... so looking at maybe 10% children nationally?

Excellent - thank you!!!

The idea of 'assessing kids of 11' into 'great' and 'also ran's is completely abhorrent . Particularly as these days it ENTIRELY depends on the money you have to live in a grammar school catchment (we did) and the MONEY to coach them for the exam (we also did) ... I mean HONESTLY, when it was a level playing field, no coaching, just everyone took the exam and the brightest got through - then hmmmm perhaps.. but now . NO WAY !

Grammar. School now is ENTIRELY the preserve of the wealthy who spend their money on houses in the 'right place' and tutors from the age of 7... instead of private school fees.

As it happens I let my eldest sit the exam which she passed. However there was no way she was going to go to the grammar because of my feelings about it. She went to the comp. Yes she went to Peterhouse, Cambridge. She got 'the big job in an investment house in the city.' As did many of her peers.

Why ? Because she is bright and her younger sister did the same .. her brother however was not as academic and has a fabulous trade which earns him more than both of them... without feeling 'less than'.

Making kids feel shit at 11 is outrageous and needs to stop !

Totally depends on the area. I live in a county with seven grammar schools each with 5 forms of entry so 1050 places available each year. Some places go to children outside the county. I would guess lots of children sit the test because some of the alternatives are not very attractive do parents will want their child to TRY to get into one of the grammars. Adjacent counties have no grammars at all.

In our area none.
though some private schools set exams they call the 11+. But they aren’t really.

London has a 5% to 10% rate. But among certain ethnicities, it reaches 80% to 90%.

Someone upthread suggested that kids in Hertfordshire don't take the 11+ but actually in the part that borders Bucks lots of kids do because the Bucks grammars nearby (Chesham, Aylesbury) accept Herts students.

It’s around 100,000 a year across 35 LAs. That is just the 11+, not independent entrance exams

I have 5 children passed the11+ and been through grammar school without spending anything on tutoring only a set of practice papers for about a tenner.Many kids there are the same.Likewise some spending money on tutoring don't make the grade.i am pleased as a working class family the grammar school option exists for poor but smart kids.

Comprehensive Future quote a figure from Schools Week of around 100k pupils taking the 11+ in England per year. The current year 7 cohort in England has just over 710k pupils, so that is approx 14%. This is a misleading presentation of the data, however, as in some areas the percentage will be 90% and in others it will be zero.

In most counties, zero. We don't have a single grammar school and the nearest ones are in London as none of the adjacent counties have them either. I'd never heard of the 11plus until I started reading Mumsnet and I'm in my early 50s.

Grammar. School now is ENTIRELY the preserve of the wealthy who spend their money on houses in the 'right place' and tutors from the age of 7... instead of private school fees.

This is absolutely NOT the case in Lincolnshire where we still have grammar schools, I can assure you. Boston kids have the opportunity to sit the 11+, It is a massively socially deprived area, as is Skegness (also has the grammar school system) as does the coastal strip up to Mablethorpe.

I don't know anyone who paid for private tutoring - the bright kids have the opportunity of a grammar school with the hope of education providing them with a way forward in life, as it was always intended to be.

Sweeping statements are not usually accuate.

Grammar schools are ENTIRELY the preserve of the wealthy who spend their money on houses in the 'right place' and tutors from the age of 7... instead of private school fees.

It’s certainly not the case where we live. There are 7 grammar schools all within 8 miles of where we live and none are in affluent areas. Most of them have links with local primaries and offer free group tutoring to help those unable to keep up with the wealthy. They are super selective grammars too so really though to gain a place. We couldn’t afford tutoring for our twins so I had to work 7 days a week for the whole of an academic year to pay for them to have a tutor. I could afford it, not because we are wealthy but because I worked like crazy to give them a boost in life.

Sweeping statements are not usually accuate.

You're right, but they can also contain a grain of truth. It's perfectly factual to say that children in receipt of the pupil premium are significantly under-represented in grammar school populations (approx 8% compared to 27% nationally) and that attempts by the DfE to widen access aren't working. A grammar school near me has children who receive the pupil premium and met the automatic qualifying score as category 2 in their admissions policy, second only to looked-after children. In 2023 they admitted a grand total of one child in this category.

That's in your area, though, @ThanksItHasPockets

Skegness Grammar school, for eg, has 19.5% of pupils eligible for free school meals. That's roughly 1 in 5. These are not children of wealthy parents who have bought a house there. In Skegness, deprivation levels (across the board) are two and a half times the national average according the the ONS, and to be honest most of the rest of the kids - although not qualifying for pupil premium - are from families who are not that well off.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that in Kent, perhaps, the grammar schools are full of bright, tutored, wealthy middle class pupils. I'm just pointing out that's not the case near me.

I've taught in these schools.

Meanwhile Skegness Academy a non selective school in the same town has over 60% FSM...

Demonstrates the point, really. Skegness has two and a half times the national deprivation average.

This is not a wealthy area and the kids are not hot housed and tutored by Mummy and Daddy.

So deprivation in Skegness is 2.5 x the national average.

PP children at Skegness Grammar comprise 19.5%, which is slightly less than 2.5 x the national percentage of PP pupils in grammar schools, at 8%.

19.5% doesn’t sound quite so impressive when you realise that it almost exactly translates to the same proportion as the national picture and is only inflated by exceptionally high levels of deprivation in the area. Skegness Academy, for context, has 62.5% PP. Skegness Grammar has no provision in its admissions policy to widen access to children receiving PP.

I didn’t mention tutoring. You’ll need to take that up with the pp who did. I said that PP children are significantly under-represented in grammar school populations nationally. This is irrefutable.

What's the situation like in Gloucestershire nowadays? When I was growing up there were single sex grammars in Stroud and Gloucester, then co-ed Pate's in Cheltenham. I went to one of these but tbh I am glad I moved away to a non-grammar area and don't have to decide whether to put my children through the test or not.

Same here. I thought it was completely done away with years ago.

Apart from Crypt now being fully co-ed, and each Grammar in the county taking 150 pupils a year, probably not much has changed. If you live N Glos then the Comps are better viewed, but the others obviously lose their highest ability group. That said some of the kids I know who transferred to Grammar sixth forms after being at non selective schools have achieved very good GCSEs and have done very well at A level and degree level.