GCSE Options Problem.... Choices Blocked!

[IJustWantAUserNameThatDoesntExistAlready]

Hi there, looking for advice from anyone who may be in a similar position with a bit more knowledge. My first post here, so apologies for any presentation errors...
My son is about to select GCSE options. He has the core, plus 3 optional.
Core is English Lang / Lit, Math, Combined Science and MFL (French). All good so far.
For his options, he needs to select one from each of the following blocks:
Block 1: Geography, History
Block 2: RE, Sociology
Block 3: Triple Science, Art, Geography (only if History chosen as Block 1), Computing... plus a bunch of vocational stuff.

Here's the problem. He's academic, and is determined (since he was 4) to make a career in the historical sciences (details don't matter). As a result, he wants to take Geography, History and Triple Science. All 3 would be very beneficial to him, and allow him to select the A-levels appropriate to progress into a degree in the appropriate area.
But because of the structure of the options, he can't. He has to drop one of these in favour of RE / Sociology, both of which are utterly useless to him (I'm not knocking them as subjects - I personally took RE to A-Level - but they're not suitable for his purposes).

Does anyone have any experience in how to approach the school to try and get this limitation changed? I'm quite happy to play softball or hardball with them to get the options he wants. Or does he just have to do a subject that is a waste of time for him, and get whichever of the preferred subjects we can't get through school privately (he already has private tutoring, I'm not bothered about the cost, but the additional schooling on top of what he already does might be too much?) If I say to the school "fine - force him to do a subject he doesn't want to do that will be a waste of time for all concerned, but don't be surprised if this straight-A student lands an F and brings down your school when he could get an A in his useful subject" - will this bounce back on him?

So frustrated that we're being blocked from GCSE options that he wants that could hinder him through the rest of his education!
Grateful for any advice...

Have the option blocks changed this year or might the same dilemma have occurred previously? Definitely possible to do A level Biology from double science. RS can be a much broader subject than you seem to fear.

Are you sure you have the correct information?? You can't do combined science and then pick one subject e.g. biology from separate/triple science. The discount entry codes would not allow a student to be entered for this combination. Students are either entered for combined science or separate/triple science - you can't mix and match them.

Yes. DS is missing that point. Gcse means General. So art and a tech should be there. Just doing career GCSEs is not very broad.

@Tinysoxxx geography and history are both ‘bucket 2’ subjects so they are important for the school’s progress 8 score. That’s why they’ve made a language (also bucket 2) and a humanities compulsory. They want to make sure pupils are doing ‘bucket 2’ subjects. RE and sociology are both ‘bucket 3’. It is strange that you can only do one though. In my school options often appear in more than one option column. Geography appears in all 3 to try and give a wider combination of option choices.

One of my Dds managed to get away without doing history or geography so technically didn’t get the baccalaureate. Which, being something Gove promoted, gave her a laugh. The big comp school was fine although they couldn’t really complain because their blocking allowed it. She got her 3 A* in other subjects at A Level but the history teacher was happy to take her if she had wanted to do it.

They have to block options off because of timetables and staffing, it would be a logical nightmare (and probably impossible) to give every child a choice of every subject.

My kids school (~250 in a year) have Eng Lit, Eng Lang, Maths, Combined Science, and a MFL (choice of French, German, Spanish) all compulsory (except for low achievers who don't have to do a MFL and spend the extra time working on English and Maths) then a free choice of all other subjects (you have to choose 4 in order of preference but it's very rare to not get your first three). Triple Science is an option, the triple kids get more hours timetabled for science than the combined kids and are taught separately. RE and PE everyone gets just one hour a week unless they have chosen it as an option.

I went to a small school in Scotland and while we didn't get a completely free choice there was more choice than @IJustWantAUserNameThatDoesntExistAlready 's son's school, particularly for the less academic kids.

I'd be furious if my kids went to a school that insisted two of the options had to be humanities and put all the DT and arts plus the option to do triple as one option choice. There are so many sensible and standard combinations that are not available to the poor kids at this school and yet they are insisting on sociology vs RE. I'd be tempted to complain to the Headmaster and then to the Governors about the lack of choice and forced emphasis on the humanities. It's bad for the smart kids, it's bad for the arty kids, it's bad for the less academic kids.

Why can't they offer a limited range in each column but give the option to study e.g. triple, a humanity and an art subject (both my DDs have done this, one does history and art, the other geography and music, it's a pretty classic academic combination) OR allow kids to do a couple of arts or a couple of DTs or triple plus a DT or PE. Or, as some other schools do, have combined vs triple as a compulsory subject with the teachers choosing who does triple and rejigging the option choices to allow greater flexibility.

I won't comment on the organisation of the choices, as I suspect a lot of that is down to the availability of staff for certain subjects. What I will say though, is that one of my DC's was only able to take combined science at GCSE because their schedule not offer triple science. They were more than able to take chemistry and physics at a level and then do a physics degree at university. They did a masters degree in physics and then became a science teacher. Currently head of department at their school. Combined science did not hold them back at all.

Computing and triple science in the same block is also a strange choice. It is definitely the case that science A-levels can be done without triple science and computing A-level without computing, so they're not narrowing the A-level options. However some kids might find it easier to decide on the A-levels if they've had the chance to do them at GCSE.

It might be worth asking whether they will ever change the blocks if there is enough demand. If there's enough kids who would prefer triple science being in block 3, say, maybe they'd move it, or consider running it in both blocks. A lot may depend on the skills and willingness of the timetabler.

(I worked in one school where they had no option blocks, and asked kids to put the subjects they wanted and a reserve in priority order. They then tried to create blocks to satisfy their preferences as well as possible. The priority order also meant that they would try and make sure everyone got their top priority subjects, and it would mostly be their lower priority ones that had to be replaced by the reserve. A subject that was only anyone's 5th choice might not run, but if a couple of kids put something 1st choice then it would be less likely to be dropped. However that was only possible because it was a small school with a timetabler who enjoyed the challenge. You just couldn't do that in a large school - although in a large school it's more feasible to offer the same subject in two blocks.)

Geography teacher here. Thanks for patronising view as I help students manage a full syllabus. Much appreciated.

@Sharptonguedwoman I let stuff like this wash over me. People are remembering back to their own GCSEs. Geography is a really challenging GCSE and definitely not basic. Some of the stuff that I’m teaching in year 10 I didn’t learn about until A level. GCSEs have moved on.

Theyvare doing it the wrong eay round!At our school they get kids to pick their options first and then set up the option blocks around this so that the maximum number of students get yo do the subjects they want.They have to do it slightly earlier in the year though to get staffing in place

Just popping up to reiterate that you are mistaken about required A levels. DS is doing archaeology at an RG uni and has neither history nor geography A level.

(Also I'm not sure which board your school uses but for my DC there was nothing about fossils in biology GCSE and very little evolution, I think it was one topic out of about 15 and one of the easier ones iirc so went by in a flash.)

Bear in mind he will probably change his mind before he is 18 so pick subjects that don't close doors

He'll have to just fit in with the system! Now is a good time for him to learn that the world does bend to his will.

Your DS may enjoy Classical civilization GCSE as it seems to fits his interests. Could be something if he is interested in self studying an extra if he can't do his preferences and would be less work than history or geography. Don't really understand the very limited option block 2 although at least it is better than compulsory RE. It is worth asking the school if DS preferred option combination is possible as schools do change policy sometimes. A level sciences very possible from combined science. Worth checking local sixth forms as they may allow e.g. history A level without GCSE but not geography.

Also, having RTFT now..

• schools don't restrict GCSE choices just to be mean, there will be a good reason and you're unlikely to persuade them to make a bespoke timetable for him

• see if he would be allowed to do history A level without GCSE, if so do triple science, geog and RE / sociology. If not, do combined science or see if they will enter him for triple if they're teaching him combined. None of these options will hinder him

• mine did RE as a compulsory subject, neither would have chosen it but they just got on with it, and it does teach useful transferable skills. Tbf they did quite a lot so could still choose the subjects they wanted to pursue, which made it less of an issue for them

• the fact that you're talking about degrees / postgrad now when he's in Y8/9 is crazy imo, they do change their minds - what if he takes sociology and falls in love with it for example? Allow him space to change his mind and encourage him to consider other things, don't make him feel he has to do archaeology because it's been decided and is what you're expecting, I know a few people who have done a particular degree because it was expected of them and it often doesn't end well. (Half the time it wasn't even expected of them, they just thought it was)

• great that you have brought him up to question things but he does have to learn to cope with things not being ideal for him too, schools have limited resources and their own priorities (and they're not actually hindering him anyway)

• if he ends up having to do RE or sociology it would be good if you could help him to see the positive side, otherwise he will have a frustrating and miserable couple of years in that class

• neither of mine did sociology but I'm sure there's quite a lot more to it than being current-affairs-aware. (Like some of the analytical skills you are keen for him to develop.) Also the closest available subject to anthropology which has links to archaeology - could this be a way of selling it to him? Universities tend not to worry about subjects taken at GCSE beyond the obvious, but some do look at grades, so it would be good if he could find a way to get interested and do his best

• only do maths A level if he is very good at it, and do additional maths first if that's available, it really helps with the Y12 content. If his current extra tuition is maths and he needs it to keep on top of Y8/9 topics, I would be wary of the A level

• archaeology is a fantastic degree and DS loves it - also thinking of palaeontology postgrad but still pondering as he is mad about Roman history too

• if you are ever in Portugal I highly recommend the trilobite museum in Arouca

@IJustWantAUserNameThatDoesntExistAlready I think you need to look at entry requirements for Palaeontology and Archaeology degrees. I've just looked at Birmingham University, as it's where I work. There are no subject requirements for Archaeology. For Palaeontology they require one subject, but that can include Geography. So he doesn't necessarily have to do Geog/Hist/Bio for A Levels.

However, I can understand that these are the subjects he likes best and would want to choose. History can be picked up at A Level if not studied at GCSE - and if it's a modern GCSE course, he may not find it that interesting anyway. Biology can also be studied at A Level without triple science, but I appreciate that he likes the content of triple science.

I don't think your problems are unique at all - most of my friends who had children at comprehensives had to choose between Geog and History, whereas at least your son can do both.

• sorry, they require one Science subject

I've been constantly amazed at how early my kids have learnt some topics and how engaging their teaching has been in comparison to the teaching DH and I received back in the 70s and 80s (DH was at a private school, I was at an old grammar school so we both had a decent education). Teaching has moved on a lot!

I would try to understand who does triple science at the school as part of the decision making. Separately to the merits of individual subjects, the ways pupils are put into sets can affect outcomes too.

At DD's school the triple science group are set one. If DS's school is similar, I would suggest going for triple to make sure he is settled with other high achievers, even if it only means one humanity.

Not read the whole thread so apologies if someone else has said this but it's because RE and sociology are such easy GCSEs to do well in that they can have far fewer lessons to prepare for the exams.
So they might have 30 lessons for history and 2 for RE let's say.

Is it a faith school? Neither of mine would want RE / sociology

You say he’s academic and that he already has private tutoring. More private tutoring, in addition to the workloads he already has, might be difficult to manage.

I’m sorry you find it hard to accept that timetabling is an issue, but any education professional will tell you that it really is a huge task to organise and it’s unfair to assume that the school is simply blocking your request. Large schools have the advantage of economies of scale and can offer more subjects, but have the disadvantage of logistical nightmares.

Wow, those are extremely restrictive options. They basically have 1 option where there is any choice. I don't get the RE/ Sociology block. The only way to change this would be for enough parents to say they want the blocks changed. They should really do RE and sociology in block 3 as not v popular and a few more options in block 2 like triple science (v popular).

i did an archaeology degree but didn't do history at gcse. i would have thought actually that sociology would be very useful to an archaeologist

weird to offer a gcse in sociology though. our kids go to a big school that prides itself on the breadth of subjects offered, but they don't do a sociology gcse