Gifted and Talented - underachiever

[sleepyhead79]

I have learned this week that my ds is an underachieving gifted child.

I have been in touch with the NAGC and they have been very helpful but I feel a little unsure as to what this means.

I was about to go into a rant about the milestones that my ds achieved as a baby and toddler but they tell me that it isn't relevant now. Although you want your child to be bright you are never prepared to hear this. I hate using the term gifted because it sounds I like am being up myself.

On Monday I approached the school and they told me that they don't feel ds is because of a drop in assessment results and the failure to meet the predicted levels this year. Eventually they agreed to look into the situation with a view to getting an assessment by aeducational psychologist.

Has anybody been in this position? Help!!!!!

I am lost in all the information and feel like I am drowning very rapidly.

whoops

sleepyhead79,
I am confused a bit by your posts. In your first post your child is ds. But in your post at 23-Mar-08 16:30:22 your child has turned into a girl! Nevermind ... lol!

I think that the label gifted and talented at an early age is a bit of a curse. Sometimes it sets up completely impossible expectations that the child stands no chance of achieving.

Children's development varies considerably and just because a child is ahead at 4 does not mean that something is seriously wrong just because their progress has plateued.

Prehaps the question you need to ask is whether your ds/dd is happy? Are they thriving emotionally? Is there anything like family problems, bullying, health problems that might be standing in their way of achieving. Is your child bored and being bone idle? Do they have a particular passion and can you do anything to foster it outside the class room.

I don't think that IQ is cut in stone. Your child may well have a intellectual spurt in a few years time. They also have to WANT to use their talents.

juuule primary schools are expected to identify G&T pupils just as they are expected to identify those with other needs.

General Characteristics of Gifted, Talented and More Able Pupils - he or she may:

• be a good reader
• be very articulate or verbally fluent for their age
• give quick verbal responses (which can appear cheeky)
• have a wide general knowledge
• learn quickly
• be interested in topics which one might associate with an older child
• communicate well with adults - often better than with their peer group
• have a range of interests, some of which are almost obsessions
• show unusual and original responses to problem-solving activities
• prefer verbal to written activities
• be logical
• be self taught in their own interest areas
• have an ability to work things out in their head very quickly
• have a good memory that they can access easily
• be artistic
• be musical
• excel at sport
• have strong views and opinions
• have a lively and original imagination / sense of humour
• be very sensitive and aware
• focus on their own interests rather than on what is being taught
• be socially adept
• appear arrogant or socially inept
• be easily bored by what they perceive as routine tasks
• show a strong sense of leadership
• not necessarily be well-behaved or well liked by others

www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/giftedandtalented/identification/

sleepyhead79 - What you are describing is not uncommon. Some gifted children become invisible in school and work extremely hard not to draw attention to themselves either because they do not want to appear different, or because they have experienced bullying, etc. Did the NAGC put you in touch with your local Branch? You can go along to several Explorers meetings before deciding if it is for you and your daughter. There you would meet a lot of parents of bright children - some of whom will be going through the same sort of thing, some of whom will have come out the other end and survived to tell the tale.

Hopefully the assessment by the Educational Psychologist will give a clear indication of how much your daughter is underachieving and then the Gifted and Talented Co-ordinator can tackle the boredom problem. If she is unsure how to tackle it check if your LEA has a Gifted and Talented Team, or someone responsible for Gifted and Talented. Some authorities have them and they are able to visit schools and advise how individual children's learning should progress.

It sounds like the school is now doing the right thing. I am not surprised by the Maths problem if she is being expected to do work she could have done three years ago. Hopefully after the assessment the maths will be sorted out quickly. Do you have any evidence of her doing the Maths at 4 - it would be worth taking it in to show them.

Good luck!

Thanks mrz.
I've just never heard it mentioned at our primary school.

primary schools doput children on he G and T reg. I know because I teach them as part of Primary outreach.

Not all Primaries make a big deal of it, in part I think because it can sometimes be unhelpful to 'label' a child early on who later levels off.

I would echo what others have said about taking the high IQ with caution if no-one has actually met and tested your child.

Not wishing to do the work could be the sign of a child being board, but it could also be caused by a number of other things.

the best people to talk to would be the school teachers who work with your child.

I would:

talk to the teacher- she may have ideas as to what would help (remember even if dd is G&T, there may still be other problems that need to be addressed)

talk to my child- emphasise that good behaviour has to be observed and work has to be done whether boring or not
(I have G&T dd myself and this IMO is non-negotiable)

do everything possible to encourage child to find an interesting hobby- this will be equally beneficial whether unusually gifted or not.

I agree with cory - before your dd goes back to school she needs to accept that she must to do the class work which is set first to the best of her ability (even if she does it extremely quickly). This is vital both so the teacher has evidence she is fully on top of what the class is doing, and that your daughter is seen to be doing the same work as the class for part of the time (which reduces the "different" problem if she is in the G&T range).

I think that you need to probably have a discussion with your child's teacher, and see what they have observed. If you have very different perceptions from outside of the classroom then I think that it may be worth bringing along evidence of your child's work demonstrating greater ability. If the school hasn't picked it up yet then it will be harder to get the necessary testing etc done, though you may be able to go to an ed psych for assessment and hopefully the school will listen to that.

I would be cautious about relying too much on the NAGC - it hasn't got the greatest of reputations imo. And ime almost all parents of pfbs in reception believe that their child is bright and NAGC feeds on this to a certain extent.

Oh you have to be careful with those lists. DS1 ticked loads of the boxes for gifted children when he was 2, but he has severe learning difficulties and severe autism. I kept on typing his symptoms in then getting those blinking gifted checklists back.

If you believe there's a gap between IQ and performance then you need a proper assessment from an ed or clinical psych.

I agree with yurt on taking care with lists.

My dd ticked lots of boxes because she has lots of very early ability with language, spoken and written.

And while she is still very good at that sort of thing, she isn't 'top of the class' and she counts on her fingers!

Just because a child is good in one area you can't assume that their ability is evenly spread.

An early reader does not, of itself, a genius make. It may well make for a good reader, which is fun, but I don't think you should 'read' too much into it, unless you have had a formal assessment.

Message withdrawn

I would approach the school and ask how you can work together to address the drop in assessment results and failure to meet predicted levels without going into this G&T stuff.

have to say that DS turning into DD doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it?

but anyway - I agree with the others about being cautious about taking a telephone helpline as gospel as to your child's abilities.

The list is the one the DCFS give to primary schools as guidance and I agree you could make it fit over half the children in the school if you just ticked boxes.

Hi Sleepy,
I share your frustration. I'm in a similar situation. My child is also complaining of boredom, but on the other hand he's clearly not showing his teachers what he is capable of. I've also spoken to the NSGc hoping that they would agree with me and tell me that im correct and my child is a giften underachiever etc and so on - they didnt. they were very clear that he needed to be assessed to be sure, and that if the assessment comes out saying that he is indeed gifted, then i should take it from there.

this is exactly what I'm doing, and although i was 100 percent sure i was right a few months ago, i am starting to waver, and i'm starting to doubt myself.
Every time I speak to his teachers, I feel like I'm being patronised and they keep insisting that they can only judge him by what they see. But, I know him, I know what he's capable of, and I've watched him care less and less about school over the past year.

He daydreams, talks in class, reads while his teacher is trying to teach, and a whole catalogue of not very pleasant behaviour - I really do feel for his teachers.

but this is the frustrating thing- His teachers are point blank refusing to consider that he may well be a gifted underachiever, and dont seem to be willing to consider this. I'd always thought that as his mum, my views would be taken seriously.

I'd like to ask any teachers here what you'd suggest.

I have no doubt that there are 'gifted underachievers' around.

However, some of the behaviours listed on this thread could also be shown by children who have no respect for others,children who have absolutely no interest in learning, children who think that their conversation is more important than anyone elses....etc.

I can see this as a useful description of a child not meeting parents' expectations.....'My little Johnny's very gifted, but.....'

My ds is also daydreaming and complaining of being bored and is probably performing somewhat under his potential, but I know him well enough to know that he is not a gifted underachiever, just an underachiever of average intelligence (and quite lazy). He has been given every opportunity at home to stretch himself; if it was really all the school's fault, I'd expect him to blossom more at home and throw himself at work that he had chosen himself. That's the difference between him and his sister, who is gifted; when you give her a chance, she grabs it with both hands. But funnily enough, she's never complained of being bored at school: she's always been thinking about how she can expand on what she's learning at school and she's always known that she has the powers to do this. I suppose ds gets bored because he finds it difficult to go beyond the basics; reading around a subject is a huge effort for him.

Ds did make up stories when he was little, like sleepyhead mentioned in her OP, but then I've never known an NT 4yo who didn't.

Blimey, this thread is from 2008.

I can't believe I have just wasted five minutes reading it

Yes, but it has been resurfaced by poster with new child, so it's kind of a new thread.

On some forums I've been on, you have to do that if you are introducing a topic that is even vaguely similar to one that's already been discussed- old threads never die, but very few new ones are born and if you inadvertently touch on a subject that was discussed in 1997 you get told off by mods. Always found that a bit scary.

It is just scary, like a whole time space continuum thingy. It also reminds me one how bloody long I have been on here having the same conversations.

Rise up, new poster.
Make your own thread!

If she's underachieving then dyslexia springs to mind. A psychologist assessment will check for this.

I was told one of my DS was very gifted in Year 1. Then we changed schools and nothing ever said, no comments about capabilities etc., child bored at school throughout, and then in Year 6, low and behold, a good teacher, interested and motivating has identified all the strengths that year 1 teacher identified.
I am feeling rather disallusioned because I feel the last few years have been wasted. Its great now great to finally see a happy motivated and interested child enjoying school once again.

Just showing our age, Pag

RoadArt - I think you've just reinforced my concern - sometimes teachers get it wrong :(