Kent grammar school catchment areas - please help!!

[Naturelover42]

Hello, I've done a lot of research on the grammar school process and catchment areas etc. but there's still one BIG unanswered question now that both Skinners and Judd have a distance criteria.
Assuming that my son performs well on the test, how close do you have to be to the super selectives (Judd, Skinner etc) to get a place?
We are looking for a home to rent at the moment.

If we rent in Tonbridge are we unlikely to get Skinners?
If we rent in Twells are we unlikely to get Judd?
Should we try to rent in the middle of both?
What about surrounding villages?
Any intel gratefully received before we make the wrong decision.........
THANK YOU

My understanding was that Judd goes purely by points, ie. living in Tonbridge vs. Tunbridge Wells won't matter (unless your DS is exactly on the acceptance threshold with points then they would give preference to someone who lives closer).

With Skinners, they have a pre-set cutoff and points above that threshold won't give you any more advantage, living closer to the school will though.

If this is still correct, and you may want to double-check, then living in TW will be an advantage for Skinners and unlikely to be any disadvantage for Judd.

That said, commuting from one town to the other is also a bit of a pain, so you may want to consider which school might be better for your DS and choose that town so they can just walk to school and save a lot of time.

Provided you have a TN postcode, Judd doesn’t have a catchment as such. They rank primarily on score. Distance only comes into it if there’s a tie on score at the lower end of the range. Last score offered to inner area went relatively low (mid 370’s) last year late in the process.

There is a LOT of movement from March to September. If you have the nerve for it, it can pay to let it all play out.

The score for 2023 entry to Skinners was increased from 360 to 373 that year. This had a massive impact on catchment. Prior to this, Skinners was a “local” school. The head teacher stated that they thought that raising the score threshold would take the catchment to Leigh/Hildenborough for first round but actually it went as far as Otford (and obviously beyond in later rounds). My son is in Y7 at Skinners. We live in Orpington (BR6) - so outer area. We weighed it all up and decided not to move but to take our chances (although we did have a great independent school backup, so it wouldn’t have been a disaster if it didn’t pay off). The inner and outer area waiting lists operate entirely independently. If you’re outer area, an outer area place must be handed back for you to move up
the list. There are (from memory?) only 20 outer area places available. Movements on the inner area list have zero impact on outer area applicants. We were offered a place from the out of area waiting list in May.

Prior to being offered a place from the waiting list, we lodged an appeal. That was a total waste of time. Skinners told me that they heard a total
of 44 appeals. Only 4 were passed! This is purely my perception but the whole process seemed weighted in the school’s favour. Both Judd and Skinners use an independent appeals panel and appeals are very hard to get through.

I guess it depends where you live now as to how much of a risk you might be taking.

Thanks so much both for the extremely helpful replies. We have found a house we like near Paddock Wood - which is in the 'inner' area for both schools but it's so hard to know if this will be close enough if it comes down to distance, rather than score. What do you think? Do kids living around there and surrounding villages get places?

If things haven't changed in the last couple of years since we went through the process, then as long as you're in Judd's inner area then it doesn't matter how close or far away you are (except in the very unlikely case that you're in a tie for last place). For Skinners, it could make a much bigger difference, as they rank on distance - one year they didn't go beyond Langton Green, which is less than three miles. It depends how high they set their pass mark.

The other thing to consider is the (very small) catchment for the more popular alternatives such as Bennett and SKA if your son doesn't pass the 11+.

We're about 5 miles outside both towns, and in our year we wouldn't have got any of those four schools except Judd (because for Judd we were inner area so distance didn't matter).

Big caveat - I don't know if things have changed in the last couple of years.

Paddock Wood is roughly 5 miles from Skinners, as the crow flies (which is how the measurement is taken). I know that it went at least 12 miles for first round offers last year. So theoretically you’re well within that. Even if you just miss first round, you’ll likely get it second round so you’d just have to hold your nerve. This all assumes that he achieves the score of 373.

One thing to bear in mind - I don’t think there’s a direct train from PW to High Brooms. It’s also quite a long walk from High Brooms to school (25 minutes). The school service buses (not sure if there is one from PW?) only run once in the morning and the afternoon, so if there are after school clubs, it’s either train or public bus.

You’d be fine for Judd as Paddock Wood is inner area for them. Also assuming you hit their threshold score. Last year I believe that first round was 381. But this can come down further in the process.

You haven’t mentioned TWGSB but this is also a pretty good distance for first round offers.

Nothing is guaranteed. No year is the same. But odds are, you’ll most likely be ok in Paddock Wood.

Hope it's OK to piggyback this thread. I really wanted advice regards grammar schools. We are new to Kent but DS has scored enough for judd entry for this year and we put it as our first choice. We are in catchment. We also have a independent backup but on Croydon ( I am concerned about about the area). I am really confused as to what to do. Independent is possible but at a huge push and be an even bigger struggle if labour add their 20 percent ( We did not qualify for a bursary or get a scholarship) so it would be full fees. We did really like the Judd but their are some negative posts on this site about staff turnover. Are there any parents here with sons at the Judd who could share their experience of the school...teaching, diversity, extra-curricular opportunities.
Thank you

I hope it's okay to jump onto this thread. We are thinking of moving from abroad back to the UK to take the 11+. DS got accepted to a independent school in Croydon for the 10+ but it's too much of a commitment, going private. We are in inner area catchment for Judd and skinners. It'll be a huge move for us so wanted to get as much info about these schools, all good and bad before making the move. Any input about the schools would be great.

I have a son at Judd and he’s loving it there. We are out of catchment so he has a long commute which was a concern initially but he’s made train friends and the journey is not a problem. He’s engaged in lessons, and like any school there will be some teachers that are better than others, but overall he seems really happy. Lots of extra-curricular clubs too and a big mix of boys. They have made it “cool to be clever” which seems to be going down well there!

Thanks everyone for these insights! Can anyone please give me their thoughts on the differences between Judd and Skinners? Is one more creative / academic / sporty / easy going / competitive than the other? We are new to the area and don’t know any / many parents yet so v hard to get the inside track!

Naturelover42 - my son starts Skinners this year, so I don't have anything to contribute as yet, but my neighbour in TW has one son at Judd and the other son at Skinners. He says that he slightly regrets sending his older son to Judd because the wider catchment means that Judd boys are spread all over the place. His older son really feels it during the holidays when his mates are in Bromley, Orpington etc. Whereas for his younger son, his friends are mainly in TW, or very close, so he has a much better social life.

@Naturelover42 FYI not sure if you’ve seen it but Skinners published their farthest offer for this year’s yr7 and it’s 9.8 miles for inner and 15.5 miles for outer. Lowest score offered for inner was 371.

I would steer very clear of Judd until the head is replaced.

Thanks @MumOfStarWars that’s super help, will get the map out!
Thanks @Osakagirl and congrats to your son! I look forward to next March when all this is over for me (for 2 years anyway) haha

I would tend to agree with Notwithabargepole, particularly if your child has SEND.

That’s interesting. @Notwithabargepole @peppaminttea 🤨 You’re not the first people I have heard say this.

@Naturelover42 I actually have a DS at Skinners and I can’t fault it. He’s sound his tribe of equally geeky boys and has thrown himself into a gazillion clubs offered during break and lunchtimes and after school!

For other people with ds at skinners, how do they find the pace? My son is very capable academically, but is a bit of a perfectionist and tends to work fairly slowly. I’m trying to work with him on his speed but am a bit concerned. This was our issue with the 11plus as he didn’t get bexley due to not finishing the paper.

Skinners furthest distance offered completely bucked the past years' trend in 2023. The school raised their threshold score which moved the catchment by about 10 miles!

My son is in Y7 at Skinner's. We actively chose the school over Judd. For him, it was clearly the right choice. The school has an outstanding music department (with a fully equipped recording studio!). To us, it felt like he would get a more rounded experience in comparison to what we perceived to be relatively one dimensional at Judd.

We were also further put off Judd by first hand reports from friends and acquaintances. One told me that she'd attended her son's Y10 parents' evening (with her son) at which one of the teachers spent the whole of the allotted time talking about the wrong boy! He apparently had no clue who her son was. In her view, unless your boy is at the very top (so known for stellar performance) or at the very bottom (notorious for all the wrong reasons), the middle ground seems to be anonymous. Obviously this is just one person's anecdote but I did hear multiple reports with the same underpinned sentiment. That just wasn't for us.

My son is loving Skinners. Having come from a primary school where he didn't have a great experience, he's settled so well and made some lovely friends. He's involved in loads of clubs. Sport is a big thing at both schools. He's not a rugby boy but he's just been selected for the football A team and joined the climbing club (they have an amazing climbing wall). There are so many clubs (sports and non sports) to choose from.

Not to derail, but just checking that the place you’ll be renting will definitely be your primary residence. Not sure for Kent but where school catchments are involved that is usually the requirement, otherwise you’d get certain people renting a flat near the school just for the postcode; it happens (but schools are wisening to it.)

They do work at a pace, but that's the nature of grammar schools. And as you point out you need the pace (and accuracy) to pass the 11+. My DS had a wobble with maths when he first arrived as the then jump right in a crack on with algebra. He got a bit of imposter syndrome but he soon got the hang of it and is thoroughly enjoying it all. The only thing he hates is the crowded buses getting home!

At skinners they ask you to send your most recent energy bill (not an estimate) for the past few months so that they can check your energy usage is consistent with a family’s usage, rather than just an address to shoehorn your child into the school

Do they also ask for photos of your solar panels, ground heat pump and wood-burning stove?

Do skinners request any other documentation as proof of address as home ownership or gp registration or bank account or council tax bills?

Both Kent Council and Skinners require documentation. I sent our rental agreement, Council Tax bill, latest electricity bill (must be actual, not an estimate), a letter from the gp about my son and his birth certificate, plus a letter from our estate agent saying that our house is under offer. As soon as your rental agreement is underway, get your son registered with a local gp and change his bank details. You’ll also need to make sure he’s attending a primary school in West Kent. I’ve read about a child of divorced parents losing his place because although they claimed he was mainly living with his dad in TW, he was going to a primary school near his mum’s house an hour’s drive away.
Year 6 primary places in TW are like hen’s teeth, so I’d try to get him into a school as soon as you have found a place to live. We have to drive across town as the local primaries are all full

Late to this thread but I have (had) 3 boys at Skinners and we actively chose it over Judd (for the two that had a choice).

My 3 are totally different - one very academic (and now at Cambridge), one very sporty, and one very musical/ drama loving. Obviously they are all bright, but I can't fault the school - there is SO much going on, the high fliers are pushed, the middle ones encouraged to push themselves, and the 'less able' (relative in a selective grammar) are supported. There are so many clubs and opportunities and they are all happy and have found their different tribes.

Judd has a reputation for being an academic hothouse and much more pushy. It is an excellent school, but we didn't like the vibe for our boys, and I know that friends with SEND children there haven't felt very supported....equally, we have friends with children there who have loved every second. I think it depends on your child....